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Produce 48 aka Make The Japanese Idol Feel Useless and Cry 48 replies to this topic Started by JPope , Jun 17 2018 04:45 AM · 

#1 JPope

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  • Dick

Posted 17 June 2018 - 04:45 AM

The first episode of the 3rd season of the Korean idol survival show has aired and you can check it out by DLing Zaeleus's files in the A/V forum, or stream at the usual Korean TV streaming sources. I don't know if anyone is watching or cares, so let's find out!

 

Season 1 was all about the girls, Season 2 was a man's world, so what does Season 3 have in store for us?

 

AKB48 

 

No, seriously, they picked 48 girls from the various and sundry 48 brands to compete along side 48 actual Kpop trainees. I don't think I'm spoiling anything by saying that, through one episode, the results are mostly predictable. I thought I'd get a kick out of seeing AKB girls getting torched by the heartless judges -- and to a certain extent I did! -- but the show really lays bare the differences between the two industries. And at least one NGT48 girl won me over completely. Yamada Noe is so damned charismatic, funny and silly that even my hatred of Aki-P can not contain my desire for her to win a spot in the final group. 

 

Former After School member Lee Kaeun is also a contestant this time around, as is Kpop survival-show vet Lee Chae Yeon (KPop Star, Sixteen). I'm a sucker for these damned shows. :lol:



#2 Zaeleus

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 04:56 AM

This season starts off identical to the previous two, but the twist of adding AKB48 really makes it quite interesting. There is a such a large skill gap between the AKB members and the Korean trainees, I'm really curious how the season is going to play out just given the cultural differences and expectations of the voters. But as Bae Yoon Jung said, it makes the show more fun to watch as individuals improve from their initial evaluation performances. The AKB members will definitely need to step up their game.

One thing I'm disappointed with is that this is the first time the show is being simulcast globally, and Mnet is again restricting voting to South Korea only, claiming that AKB48 is too popular already and would essentially swing the votes. I understand that makes it easy to validate legitimate votes, but it's lame that international viewers won't be able to vote.

If this show doesn't work out for the HOW Entertainment girls, I want to see them fill the void that Crayon Pop left.



#3 JPope

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 05:10 AM

But hey, they're gonna be a "Global Group"!

 

Kpop is almost certainly bigger globally than AKB48, and that the global audience for this show would sway towards Kpop fans in any event. If the voting doesn't go close enough to script, I think they'll fix it. I expect the final 12 to have enough AKB girls to ensure the group is marketable in Japan at the very least. How many is that? No fewer than three, I'd guess and preferably four-to-six. Anything more than four will be tough, though, unless a So-hye type emerges that just wins the collective hearts of the country, and eventually sort of earns it. Now that I type this, I'm almost certain this will happen :lol:



#4 Anderei

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 01:24 PM

It’ll be rigged to have a few of the big names for sure. No way it’s debuting with just theater girls, that wont make it marketable in Japan at all.

#5 aine

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 02:11 PM

The JPope is getting into K-pop, it's the end of times. :lol:

#6 JPope

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 11:56 PM

Pretty sure I was the guy who suggested adding a K-pop forum in the first place  :tongue:



#7 Ari

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 11:57 PM

I initially said I wasn't going to watch this, but then I found out that Lee Chaeyeon was going to be in the show and well...it all goes downhill from here. It sucks that only Koreans will get to vote though. I remember reading something initially where it said that Japan can only vote for Korean trainees and Korea can only vote for Japan trainees. It sounds like all sorts of messy but it would be more unpredictable and fun I think. 

 

Looking forward to episode 2! I'm interested in seeing Miyawaki Sakura's evaluation, as she didn't really stand out much to me in Pick Me MV. 



#8 Farrah

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 11:03 AM

I probably won't watch this show, but like the first season of P101, I plan to keep up with the performances.  I did watch and enjoy the male season of this show but the girls are under so much pressure to not seem "bitchy" they tend to come off much more boring and I struggle to stay interested lol.

 

All that said, I've seen a lot of stuff about the AKB48 girls being horrifically untalented compared to the Korean trainees.  While it is true that most 48G members are completely musically useless, I won't lie, from the performances I've watched, the gap isn't as big as it should be LOL!  I was very let down by the quality of the Korean trainees shown in the first episode.  There were many more amazing vocalists and dancers in the first two seasons, whereas (so far) the best performances this time around ring in somewhere around the "mediocre" mark. 

 

So far I see no Jeon Soyeon, Kim Sejeong, Kim Jaehwan, or Lee Daehwi (aka no showstoppers).  I'm guessing a lot of companies saw what a big, dramatic, xenophobic clusterfuck this season would be and chose to either send no one or not send their best.  The risk for negative PR is incredibly high this season and most discussion of the show on Korean message boards has been incredibly negative.  Also, some companies like Pledis and Woolim are kind of in an awkward stage - it hasn't been very long since they last debuted girl groups and the trainees they have at the moment are essentially the people not talented enough to make the cut for Lovelyz and Pristin.



#9 Shoujo Q

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:55 PM

The debate between Kpop and Jpop idols gets discussed on Produce 48. English Sub Version

 

Basically, watch if you want to see some of the 48 girls get roasted. Regardless, I hope this show helps the girls they picked to become better idols in Japan. 

Of the clips I've seen so far, they are going to need a LOT of work compared to the Korean girls.  :wheely:



#10 JPope

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  • Dick

Posted 23 June 2018 - 08:25 PM

Alright, the Sakura sub-plot pissed me off initially, but having seen how it played out, I'm almost positive this was a set-up. I've spoiler-boxed my thoughts below.

 

Spoiler



#11 Anderei

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 08:36 PM

Obviously scripted.

#12 Farrah

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 02:29 AM

I haven't watched the episode yet so I'm just going off what I'm seeing people say online... but if anything I'd say it's the second evaluation where they're editing to make her look better lol!  I think her first performance is a pretty spot-on representation of her skills.  I've seen a lot of Sakura over the years and she is genuinely not very talented, at all.  I've never seen her perform significantly better than that Kuroi Tenshi audition.  So if she's looking super skilled all of a sudden, I feel like they purposely edited things to make the Korean girls look worse than her.  They'd pretty much have to.  Can't sing, can't dance, zero stage presence... Sakura just ain't got it.  Any of it.

 

The one thing I will say the AKB48 girls probably have over their Korean counterparts is ability to memorize choreography quickly.  According to some people who have worked on set for 48G videos, they often learn the choreography the day of the shoot.  This probably accounts for just how horrific their dancing looks in their videos compared to their live performances LOL by the time they do it in concert, they actually know it!  Because of this, I'm not surprised Sakura was able to memorize things quickly, but I doubt she actually performed what she memorized in a way that could be describe as "good".

 

Anyway, #JusticeForJurina LOL (just kidding, my girl has definitely been pushed to the front since the day she joined... but I'm seeing her get so much hate from Sakura fans on some forums and it's pissing me off.)



#13 Anderei

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 03:01 AM

I've read the same thing, I think part of the reason they have to learn choreo so late is because the songs get finished so last minute. And the fact that AKB singles are compromised of girls from six different groups these days is probably also part of the problem, since they're never in the same place. But I think it's also a j-idol thing, I've read of H!P girls also having to learn choreo fairly quickly.

 

Sakura can't dance worth a damn, though, and everyone knows it. You might be able to find some cherry picked performance where her vocals are okay, but she has never been good at dancing, so that's how you know they're setting her up as a winner.



#14 Farrah

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 04:32 AM

It's very frustrating... because we all know these shows are scripted, the results generally manipulated to go a certain way by editing or by pure manipulation... but they're making it so obvious this time that it's a) making netizens hate Sakura LOL and b) making the show frustrating to watch.  They need to tone it down.  I have no doubts a lot of the Japanese girls will rapidly improve after being subjected to training, I think a lot of them have very raw talent that can be shaped into something powerful by the end of the show, I really do!  But Sakura ain't no dancing queen LOL she's not even one of those idols who can compensate for their lack of musical talent with a powerful or exciting stage presence.  She's incredibly bland on top of her lack of ability.

 

Sakura is very, very pretty... but Mnet will never convince anyone she's a superstar LOL it's obvious a big part of this season's negotiations involved an agreement that Sakura would be portrayed a certain way, and probably a similar agreement about Gaeun as well.  Yoojung and Daehwi can perform circles around both of those girls without even trying... the gap between those two and Sakura/Gaeun makes it way too obvious that this season was pre-planned and rigged.



#15 JPope

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 04:55 AM

Here's the thing, though: they can manipulate the video from evaluations all they want, but these girls will have to perform in front of audiences several times throughout the run of the show, which will be a lot harder to mask. And if they continue to grease the skids for Sakura after a few shit performances, the viewers will hate her. It's gonna be a tough balancing act if they really want to fix it so she's in the final group, especially after throwing her in the A group right off the bat. They can't risk viewers turning on her to the point where massaging the votes to keep her on becomes too obvious. They have to retain "reasonable doubt" with the viewers, if only for future seasons to remain viable.



#16 Farrah

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:06 AM

Both seasons, several people got into the group by pure power of their looks, so it's not totally unbelievable for someone like Sakura to make it in LOL but the useless pretty people in the first two seasons all had very endearing storylines.  "X can't sing or dance but they work themselves to death trying to do better!" That's exactly how they should be selling Sakura, because this whole "Wow, Sakura's a natural at everything!" approach they're taking... it's so annoying and obvious haha.

 

A perfect example is during the singing lesson with Soyu, Sakura's scared of the high "pick me up" part, she tries but can't sing it properly (understandable, it's high as fuck).  They bring Miyu up and she gives a go at it, then they ask Sakura to do it again.  Sakura opens her mouth and proceeds to clearly sing completely different, lower notes than Miyu...we see everyone clapping and losing their shit because "Omg Sakura you did it!" but... she didn't do it, she didn't hit that super high note!  She sang it at a lower, more comfortable (harmonizing, I think) pitch.  It KILLED me, LOL.  Your average viewer is tone deaf so they may not notice, I don't know... but I was so irritated.



#17 Anderei

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:16 AM

^^

I don't think they would do another season of Produce 48 unless the final group performs very well in Korea, and not all of the groups formed from these shows have. And I question the ability of the 48 girls to hold the peoples' interest in Korea long term without all the scripted drama.

 

No one has ever been more bored of their own creation than Akimoto is of AKB48. They'll quickly move onto something else after this.



#18 Farrah

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:57 AM

Yeah, I can't imagine another season of this show lol especially with all the scandal online surrounding AKB's performances with the imperial flag, etc.  This is definitely the most political Produce season.  It'd have to do amazingly well for them to risk it again lol.

I'm still watching the episode, taking breaks every once in awhile because I have zero attention span LOL but another perfect example of them rigging it for Sakura?  Showing like eight Korean trainees fucking up the Japanese version of the song, followed by showing Sakura nailing it... because she's fucking Japanese! LOL It would've made far more sense to follow their Japanese version with her Korean version. 

 

Is it, perhaps, because she likely failed to learn the foreign lyrics just like everyone else?  When they did show her Korean video, they only showed her singing one line despite showing quite a bit of her Japanese version.  Lord...



#19 JPope

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 06:16 AM

No, I mean the "Produce" franchise in general. I highly doubt there will be another "48" collaboration beyond this season. It has to remain believable enough for viewers to want to continue to take part in any future "Produce" show.



#20 JPope

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 05:15 AM

So they're really pushing Sakura, huh...



#21 Anderei

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 05:28 AM

I probably won't watch this show, but like the first season of P101, I plan to keep up with the performances.  I did watch and enjoy the male season of this show but the girls are under so much pressure to not seem "bitchy" they tend to come off much more boring and I struggle to stay interested lol.

 

All that said, I've seen a lot of stuff about the AKB48 girls being horrifically untalented compared to the Korean trainees.  While it is true that most 48G members are completely musically useless, I won't lie, from the performances I've watched, the gap isn't as big as it should be LOL!  I was very let down by the quality of the Korean trainees shown in the first episode.  There were many more amazing vocalists and dancers in the first two seasons, whereas (so far) the best performances this time around ring in somewhere around the "mediocre" mark. 

 

So far I see no Jeon Soyeon, Kim Sejeong, Kim Jaehwan, or Lee Daehwi (aka no showstoppers).  I'm guessing a lot of companies saw what a big, dramatic, xenophobic clusterfuck this season would be and chose to either send no one or not send their best.  The risk for negative PR is incredibly high this season and most discussion of the show on Korean message boards has been incredibly negative.  Also, some companies like Pledis and Woolim are kind of in an awkward stage - it hasn't been very long since they last debuted girl groups and the trainees they have at the moment are essentially the people not talented enough to make the cut for Lovelyz and Pristin.

 

 

I'm definitely feeling you with the Korean trainee thing. I watched Kim ChoYeon's Lip and Hip performance again (because I am Hyuna fan trash) and I felt like she had some serious struggle vocals on, when the original isn't even the slightest bit demanding, nor performed by someone known to be much of a vocalist herself. You can definitely tell all the best trainees have debuted or already moved on from the survival shows.



#22 JPope

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  • Dick

Posted 02 July 2018 - 06:24 AM

The Korean girls are nowhere near the level of season 1. 



#23 Ari

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  • Juice=Juice

Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:53 PM

Fancams for all the performances are up on YouTube. I haven’t watched all of them yet, but Chiba Erii’s fancam is currently trending on Naver. Probably people like me who wanted to see how she would pull off the song lol. She’s a cutie though and I thought she did pretty well for having to do a song that’s way out of her comfort zone.

Also Sakura’s fancam already has over a million views on YT. It might be just me but I still don’t get her appeal. In the fancam she just kind of has the same awkward smile through out the whole thing so I don’t really see the charisma that everyone keeps talking about and don’t understand why Mnet keeps pushing her.

#24 JPope

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  • Dick

Posted 02 July 2018 - 09:52 PM

I think the agencies were told to send weaker trainees to make the AKB girls look better. And yeah, if the purpose of this show was to get me to learn to hate Sakura, it's working.



#25 Farrah

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 07:34 AM

Obviously they're going to focus on the more popular AKB girls more than the lesser known ones but god, if it were up to me I'd say "At least focus on the one who's fun to watch!" ie Jurina.  But I'm starting to buy into the theory some others are positing - that 48G's whole plan for this show was to create a graduation vehicle for Sakura and that Jurina was basically only sent here to make sure lots of fans watch the show, with no real intentions of her ever making it into the final lineup. 

 

I'm actually starting to think she's getting less and less screen time on purpose - because the first two episodes made them realize a lot of Koreans liked Jurina more than Sakura (especially girls, while Sakura's video views are around 80% male, Jurina's come in around 60-70% female) and they don't want their girl who just won Senbatsu gone for a year to promote in Korea lol.  This is very disappointing to me as someone who has liked Jurina for quite a few years but what can you do?

 

The fancams this year have confirmed Korean trainees are definitely weak as hell this year.  No one instantly pops out to me as a star.



#26 Anderei

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 05:58 PM

I don’t know about that. Sakura is your pretty classic ‘graduates to focus on her acting career and never sings another day in her life’ idol.

#27 Farrah

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 08:12 PM

The thing is, that hasn't worked out so swell for other 48G girls.  Every single one of them has underperformed in terms of post-48 success, even ye ol' Maeda Atsuko (whose roles ever since her AKB hype died out have been almost all supporting / sometimes even unnamed like as "refugee").  She was supposed to be a huge star but within two years of graduating, she was pretty much irrelevant. 

 

No one has been able to really use 48G as a significant stepping stone into acting or music in Japan and I'm willing to bet a lot of the girls have caught on to that.  Idols are already not taken seriously, but the 48G name in particular is pretty much a joke.  Sakura is very popular in Korea which could mean a steady income of beauty endorsements and variety appearances as a Japanese novelty if she plays her cards right.

 

Meanwhile, there are murmurs on Korean news sites that Jurina will be dropping out of the show for health reasons.  She went on health hiatus right after the elections and it's looking like she won't be coming off of it in time to film for P48.  Two weeks is the longest she's ever been away from work (insane, right?) since she was 11 years old.  On one hand, I really want her on the show.  On the other hand, I don't want her to die.  So... it's a crap shoot either way.



#28 Derby

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 05:12 PM

I'm really finding the korean trainees a lot less interesting and very basic in comparison to the japanese girls



#29 Anderei

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 06:59 PM

The Japanese girls are definitely getting a more favorable edit which isn’t surprising. They weren’t gonna do the show and let them all go over there and get slaughtered.

#30 Ari

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:10 PM

It’s not just the edit though, but based on the audience votes from episode 4, seems like the overall PD48 fans in Korea are also pretty biased towards the Japanese trainees. Their votes were considerably higher than many of the Korean trainees. But well I guess the audience could also be rigged by Mnet too, there are some theories going around on how Mnet doubled the audience votes because for the number of votes for each trainee all the votes were even which is kind of sketchy.