Jump to content

  • Please log in to reply
Suugaku Joshi Gakuen Ep 12 sub it ain't over till it's over 42 replies to this topic Started by aine , Mar 28 2012 05:09 AM · 

#1 aine

aine
  • 名無しさん‮

Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:09 AM

So this is where we are...

We can soon congratulate ourselves and go on a well-deserved holiday, but until then, let's make it beautiful~

The premise of this thread is that you (yes, you!) can add any lines or make corrections wherever you wish, even if it's just one line. To put it one way, it's like the collaboration that goes on on a wiki, but without the wiki software. Or to put it another way, it's like the collaboration that'd go on on open source software.

There are [/will be] a lot of holes, but every little bit helps and I'm asking everyone here to expand this if they can. Don't worry about timing anything; we'll do that later. The timestamps on this are just rough guidelines to show where in the episode the lines should go.

I figure that the number that can half-ass understand what's going on is somewhat high, at least much higher than the number of people who have a full understanding and are able to take the time to do a full translation.

Just a few guidelines to make the process smooth:
- If you edit your previous post to correct the translation, mark it either by bolding the new version or striking out the old one. This will help update the timed script without missing anything.
- If you're planning to spend more time translating a longer section of the episode, make a post saying which times are you covering (eg. 2:30 - 6:00) so someone doesn't double your work at the same time. Once you're done edit your post and paste the translation.
- If there's a longer gap between the dialogues, insert a new timestamp.
- If you're skipping one line in the middle of an otherwise translated dialogue, make sure to mark it (a bunch of "???" or "..." will do).
- For now, do not mark who says what unless necessary, it makes inserting the lines into a timed script harder.
- When you spot a mis-translation, correct it!
- Focus on getting the meaning accurate, don't worry if the translation becomes too wordy or awkward. Editors will fix that.
- Enjoy, because you're awesome for contributing even one line.


Plan for today's lesson:

1. Keep checking the general SJG thread where someone will hopefully post yt links after the show airs.
2. As Al suggested, create a quick and dirty translation of the whole episode. This is the stage where everyone is especially welcome to contribute.
3. Once that's done, Al goes over the script and rewrites it if necessary.
4. In the meantime, translate the complete opening credits. I know that majority of the names are the same from episode to episode, but as they keep moving them around having them all written out makes typesetting much easier.
5. Also translate the signs. I'll post a collage of signs requiring translation once I get my hands on the episode, but feel free to use common sense in determining what may need to be translated in advance of that.

#2 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:08 PM

速報! 今日の数学女子学園(第12話)

失踪

Credits and Signs

Except regular members

石川梨華 = ISHIKAWA Rika  矢島舞美 = YAJIMA Maimi
鞘師里保 = SAYASHI Riho  鈴木愛理 = SUZUKI Airi

工藤遥 = KUDO Haruka  佐藤優樹 = SATO Masaki
飯窪春菜 = IIKUBO Haruna  石田亜佑美 = ISHIDA Ayumi

須藤茉麻 = SUDO Maasa
譜久村聖 = FUKUMURA Mizuki  生田衣梨奈 = IKUTA Erina  鈴木香音 = SUZUKI Kanon

吉川友 = KIKKAWA Yuu  清水佐紀 = SHIMIZU Saki  徳永千奈美 = TOKUNAGA Chinami

嗣永桃子 = TSUGUNAGA Momoko
高木紗友希 = TAKAGI Sayuki  吉橋くるみ = YOSHIHASHI Kurumi  田辺奈菜美 = TANABE Nanami

中島早貴 = NAKAJIMA Saki  岡井千聖 = OKAI Chisato  萩原舞 = HAGIWARA Mai


町田キーナ = MACHIDA Kiina (or Kina)

"1+1=2" が正しいことを証明せよ

ゴールドバッハの予想 ( Goldbach's conjecture )
2より大きな偶数は2個の素数の和で表せることを証明せよ

ペアノの公理 ( Peano axioms )

#3 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:31 PM

I'm watching it now and there's no way I can do all of this episode. I don't understand a single thing that's going on in the math battle between Nina and her sister. Most of the other stuff should be no problem, but I don't know nearly enough about math and the vocabulary to handle this one.

#4 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:55 PM

Still waiting for the good version of the episode to pop up. Again, there's no way I can get that math part done on my own, but the episode itself seems to ignore it since it fades out the sound in favor of clips from the series.

#5 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:38 PM

As for math part, they skip the proof many times and that's not complete.
By way of precaution, I'll try to write out the part.

#6 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:56 AM

I found a low quality full version, so I'll use that to begin translating, but I've got to be up really early in the morning for work, so I may not be able to finish before I need to go to bed.

#7 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:54 AM

It seems that the HD version has already popped up. :smile:

Here is the math part.
Still, I'll manage to read the signs they put down on the white board.
When I fail to do it, forgive me meow.


7:23
まず、0と自然数の集合をNとする。
0はNのである。
aがNの元であれば…ただひとつ…存在する…
Nの任意の元aとbに対し、aの部分集合Aが0を含み…
aを含めば…s(a)を含むとき…、A=Nになる。
ペアノの公理よ。

9:53
証明の続きはこう。
まず証明するための準備として、公理には定数記号0しか明記されてないから、
定数記号を次のように定義する。
1=s(0)、2=s(s(0))、3=s(s(s(0)))。
ペアノの公理より、Nにおいて加法が以下のように定義できる。

10:20
定義1。Nの任意の元aに対して、a+0=a、つまり0を加法に関する単位元とする。
定義2。a+s(b)=s(a+b)。

a+s(0)=a+1。

11:06
この式においてa=1とすると、s(1)=1+1。これが

11:40
ラストいくよ!
1=s(0)であるから、s(1)=s(s(0))=2。これが
したがってより、1+1=2。
以上、証明終わり!

#8 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:21 AM

Here's the episode without the math. I won't be able to do that until tomorrow. I also need help at the very end when Nina and Kazuki talk about some mathematician names Rosen-something. I wrote it using the low quality version and it looks like the HD version adds about 2 seconds to all the times I wrote.

1:07

Big Sis…
Why are you here?
I’m here to fight you!
Why do you want to fight Nina?
There’s a panda here.
Before that, should I tell those other two what’s going on?
Fine, I’ll tell them.
Nina came to this school because she was looking for me.
Is that true?
Yeah.
After my Big Sis became Math Boss, she disappeared.
So I wanted to find out what happened to her…
That’s why you wanted to become Math Boss.
So that’s the reason. I had no idea.
I don't know why, but I had a feeling she was aiming for greatness.
Big Sis, answer me! Why are you..?
Don’t you get it? I’m doing it to rule over all the mathematicians in the world!
Rule?
The panda?
I have a feeling she’s got more to say.

2:27

I would use the opportunity of becoming Math Boss to wipe out all the math schools.
But I'd need to get rid of this school to do it.
After that, there would be no one left to reveal my plans, and I could put my silent revolution underway.
It’s like a sudden gunshot!
I will completely take over the math world… Then I’ll defeat the world’s mathematicians in battle.
Anyone left to oppose me would be destroyed!
The panda would do that?
Shh!
How about it? That’s my whole plan. Magnificent, isn’t it?
The Big Sis Nina knew… Would never do that…
She was always kind… And laughing… And when she talked about math, her eyes were so full of life.
But… Now Big Sis’ eyes… Are dead!
Rule all mathematicians? That’s insane!
Nina… Of course you'd be the one I'd have to fight.
With you to interfere, you'll just stand in the way of all our plans.
If that’s the case, we'll have to destroy you.
I accept.
Nina will… Defeat you!
You’re… Not my real Big Sis!
Fine with me. This will become… Your last battle!

4:40

The reason why I chose to hold the battle here…
Is this.
She’s not a panda anymore…
What is that?
The record of 1200 years of math school history. The ultimate tome.
History? That’s a bit much, isn’t it?
This book is filled with problems that have gone unanswered throughout math history.
There are over 20,000 such problems.
Mathematicians throughout history have whispered about this priceless book.
Nina… For our battle, I’ll choose one of these unanswered problems. Okay?

5:33

(book text) Clearly prove that 1+1=2
This is a great problem, isn’t it? How appropriate for a last battle.
One plus one equals two?!?
It says prove it, but everyone knows it’s correct…
I don’t get it.
Hey you, call the start of the battle?
Me?
Yes.
I understand…
And so… Ready…
Start!
I’ll show you the difference between our true power.
It’s finally begun!

6:30

So fast!
What should… What should I do?
Prove that one plus one equals two. Up until now, I’ve never thought about it.
Nina-sama… What’s wrong?
I can’t… My heart… My heart’s just not in it.
Why? Why does Nina have to battle her Big Sis?
My beloved Big Sis…

7:15

What’s wrong, Nina?
I told you there was nothing you could do. Here it comes!

7:23

First, let ℕ be the set of natural numbers including 0.
0 is an element of N.
If a is an element of N… But one after that… Exists.
For any arbitrary element of a and b in ℕ, A includes 0….
If a being an element implies that s(a) is an element… Then A is equal to ℕ.


7:48

It’s Peano’s axioms.
As expected from Nina-sama’s older sister…
She can’t come back from that!
Somehow it all seems right…
It’s over… My Big Sis is just too strong!
There’s nothing else I can do…
Nina-sama…
Nina-sama!
This!
This will give you power!
Sayu… You!
Eat it, Nina-sama!
Me too!
Kazuki… You too?
There isn’t much else I can do, but if you eat this, you can gather your power!
Thank you. Sayu, henchman, thank you!
Delicious! Delicious! Delicious!!!
I won’t forget your feelings!

9:29

Big Sis… You haven’t seen Nina’s true power!
After this… What do I do next?
Having trouble, Sis?
Fine… Here comes Nina!

9:53

This is how you continue the proof.
First off, in order set up the proof, since only the numeral 0 has been defined in the axioms, we define the subsequent numbers:
1 = s(0), 2 = s(s(0)), 3 = s(s(s(0))).
Using the Peano axioms, addition in ℕ can be defined as follows.


10:17

Alright! Nina-sama’s got this!
Go for it!

10:20

Definition 1. For any element a in ℕ, a + 0 = a (that is, 0 is the additive identity).
Define 2. a + s(b) = s(a + b).

10:38

Your skirt is shorter than you claim!

10:41

This battle is over!

10:43

Let’s battle!

10:44

The answer is 3:16 and 22 seconds.

10:49

Alright!

10:51

Accuse them!
That’s playing dirty!

10:53

I’ve proven how you pulled off your trick!

10:56

... s(a + 0) = a + s(0) = a + 1

11:00

Nina-sama.
Amazing!
It feels like no one can stop her now!

11:06

This formula shows that if a=1, s(1)=1+1. This is 1.

11:17

Big Sis… The Nina of the past could have never figured this out.
I wouldn’t have been able to beat Big Sis.
But… Nina has become stronger.
Fighting all my rivals made Nina a lot stronger.

11:40

Here comes the last part!
Since 1=s(0), s(1)=s(s(0))=2. This is 2.
Therefore, using 1 and 2, 1+1=2.

11:59

That’s all. Q.E.D.
A… A perfect explanation!
Math tells us that one plus one is two. But… Nina doesn’t think so.
Huh? What do you mean?
One plus one can be three, or four, or five.
When you add dear friends, it can be ten, or a hundred, or a thousand.
Nina-sama…
Since Nina met her dear friends… I’ve been truly happy.
Nina-Sama!
How amazing… Nina…
My… Little sister!
She won! Nina wins!!!
Alright!
Sine! Cosine! Mentaiko!
We thought you would win.
You’re the best!
It’s because of you guys!
You lost to Nina! You're still not ready to challenge me!
Did you really think you could rule the mathematicians of the world?

13:54

Oh man, oh man, oh man!
That was so fun! Awesome! So awesome!!!
Huh? What?
Sorry! Sorry!
This was all… Something I put together. Because of “that.”
“That!”
A happy prank!
WHA-?!?
It was all a lie? The mathematicians? Ruling them? That was… Huh?
I made it all up!
And I believed everything you said...
Now that I think about it… Big Sis used to always love surprising Nina…
It was all a huge troll?
Dammit! You went too far, Big Sis!!!
I’m sorry! But I should have done more.
Huh? Well… Where did your older sister disappear to then?
Well you see, you were completely wrong about me disappearing. I was just studying in America.
Studying abroad?!?
For becoming Math Boss, the head of the school rewarded me by letting my study anywhere I wanted to in the world. I was so happy, I hurriedly went over there!
Then why didn’t you contact me?
Because I couldn’t mail you. I can’t use cell phones or computers, right? You're the same way!
I couldn’t be helped, I guess…
I guess they're an analog family.
When I got back from studying abroad, When I heard Nina was searching for me…
I was overcome with feeling that I used to have, so I decided to prank her! I got my old classmates to help me out.
So that’s what happened…
Dammit, Big Sis…

16:01

That’s that but…
Nina, you’re now the Math Boss.
Your classmates, the underclassmen, the third year students. You’ve defeated all sorts of rivals.
Everyone sees it now. You’re number one in this math school!
Really?
Of course! Congratulations, Nina!
Nina-sama, you did it!
Congratulations!
Let go of me!
Well, I just became Math Boss so I could find my Big Sis.
What will you do?
Huh?
When I became Math Boss, as a reward they said I could study abroad at any school I wanted in the world.
Study abroad…
Nina-sama, are you going?
Nina’s just fine here! This math school is fine!
Are you sure? You’ll waste your chance!
This is the best place for me. Everyone is here. I can battle anytime I want. I can do what I want. I wouldn’t have that anywhere else, right?
I see.
Nina-sama…
Well, that’s so like you…
Ah! Wait a sec!
Hey, Nina! How about battling me?
But we already…
Before was… I was playing around. I wasn’t using all my strength!
How about it?
Fine with me.
Okay. This will be a real battle of sisters, right?
That’s right!

18:00

Hello, it’s Kazuki.
I want to thank everyone for sticking with us until the end!
I’m going to keep travelling this path from now on.
I’m learning how to survive among all these girls. I’m kind of starting to like it.
Henchman! Where’s my mentaiko bread?
YES MA’AM!!!
You shouldn’t run in the halls.

18:31

But why Kazuki?
I want to know too.
I just want to protect him.
Huh?
And the squeak his glasses makes when he adjusts them...
Huh?
That’s just weird…
I’ve got your mentaiko bread.
Ah, thank you!
You’re late! Can’t you run any faster?
Well you’re the only one that has a problem with it!!!
Ah! Kazuki-kun! That book!

18:57

(book title) Math Even a Monkey Can Understand
No way! Kazuki’s actually studying?!?
It’s true! That’s a real case!
Yeah, well I figured I’d catch up with everyone…
Outta the way!
There’s no way with that brain of yours.
You’ll always be an idiot!
I think so too~
You don’t believe in me?!?
Shut up! I’m working on something here!
I’m sorry…

19:23

It doesn’t look like there are any battles going on anywhere…
But when there are, I'll judge them!

19:30

Yummy!
I’m gonna take some of Ma’am’s food!
Me too!
I want some too!
Ma’am’s food is the yummiest!
Food’s the best when you eat it together, isn’t it?
Yummy!

19:51

Formation… Halt!
First floor, all clear!
Second floor, all clear!
Third floor, all clear!
We will always, always…
Protect this school’s peace!
Protect it!
Salute this school’s peace!
Salute!

20:14

Well done.
Job well done!
Which do you want? I’ll take what’s left.
Is it alright?
Thank you.
Lately, Iroha’s become really kind.
It looks that way.
Not in the least!

20:39

We need to keep working. For the sake of the Insider’s kingdom.
We know.
Our leader is a true terror.

20:56

Mirror, mirror on the wall.
Who is the cutest one of them all?
Tomochi!!!
Tomochi’s cute-meow! Meow meow!

21:09
Nina-sempai likes us the most!
What are you talking about? She likes us more!
Us!
Us!
I did it!!!
Nina-sempai?

21:33

I did it! I did it!!!
Nina-sama, what’s up?
I've proven Rosenzweig's Demonic Function!
Eh?!? "Rosenzweig?" You mean his ultimate problem? The one they said no one would solve until the end of the world? That problem?!?
Yes!
Kazuki, you really do know it?
Yeah, I’ve been studying a lot recently!
Really, Nina? That’s an ultra humongous case!
Show us how you did it!
Of course!
Listen…
Ah… We don’t have enough time. It’s impossible!!!
EHHH?!?
That’s it?
But that’s my Nina-sama! I love you!
What’s that supposed to mean?
Sorry!
B-U-T!
Sine!
Cosine !
Mentaiko !

22:45

Suugaku Joshi Gakuen is coming to DVD !
Yay!
Inside the box is lots of unseen behind the scenes stuff!
There’s lots of pictures and stuff from filming too!
Be sure to check it out!

#9 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:24 AM

1:07
line 15
Somehow I had a feeling though…
 → 何か、大きく見えてきた。
意訳 何故かわからないけど、私はニーナが凄い人に見えてきた。

2:27
line 1
The plan was, once I became Math Boss, I’d wipe out all the math schools.
 → 数学番長になったのをきっかけに、私は数専から姿を消したわ。
意訳 数学番長になったのを契機として、私は数専から姿を消したわ。

line 2
But it was more than just that.
 → ここにいても仕方なかった。
意訳 私はこの学校にいても、何もするべきことがなかった。

line 3
Because of it,
 → その後は、

line 6
And if they challenged me a second time I’d wipe them out!
 → 二度と立ち上がれないように、完膚なきまでにぶちのめす!
意訳 彼らが決して私に挑むことの無いように、徹底的に叩き潰す。

line 14
Nina… Of course you could never face me in battle.
 → ニーナ… やっぱりあなたと戦うしかないわね。
意訳 ニーナ… やはり私はあなたと戦う必要があるわ。

line 15
If you’re that weak, you should just stop trying to stand in the way of our plans.
 → あなたを生かしておけば、私たちの計画の障害になるのは明らか。
意訳 あなたがいると、あなたが私たちの計画を妨害することは容易に想像できる。

line 16
If that’s the case, you’ll never win this fight.
 → だったらこの場で叩き潰す!
意訳 だから、私はあなたをここで叩き潰す!

4:40
line 5
One of nine volumes.
 → 究極の一冊。

line 9
Mathematicians throughout history haven’t been able to fully explain them.
 → そのまま数学界の歴史と言ってもいい、貴重な書物。
意訳 この本は、数学界の歴史すべてを表現している、貴重な書物なのよ。

10:38
Your skirt is shorter than you claim!
 → あんたの図は、スカートが異様に短い!
意訳 あなたの説明によると、実際よりスカートが短くなっている。

11:59
line 18
You lost to Nina! We’re not done yet!
 → ニーナに負けるようじゃ、まだまだだね。
意訳 ニーナに負けるなんて、あなたもまだ修行が足りないわね。

13:54
line 11
Why do I feel out of the loop?
 → すっかり信じていたわけなんですが…
意訳 私はあなたの話をすべて信じていたんだけど…

line 21
You can’t use cell phones or computers, right? That’s all your fault!
 → 携帯もパソコンも使えないでしょ? ま、あんたもだけどね!
意訳 私は携帯もパソコンも使えないでしょ? ま、あなたも使えないけどね!

line 23
We should just leave it at that, huh?
 → アナログは家系なんだね。
意訳 アナログな機械しか使えない家族なんだね。

18:31
line 3
I just want to give him everything.
 → えっ、守ってあげたくなるじゃん!

line 5
And when we’re…
 → あの、こう、眼鏡がちょっとキュッと曲がってて…

19:23
line 2
I like it like this!
 → 私が仕切っちゃうんだから!

21:09
line 1~4
We love Nina-sempai the most!
What are you talking about? We love her more!
We do!
We do!
 → ニーナ先輩のお気に入りは私たちだから!
   何言ってるの? 私たちの方が好かれている!
   私たち!
   私たち!

21:33
line 2~3
 → ローゼンツヴァイクの悪魔関数の証明が出来た!
   えー! ローゼンツヴァイクって、究極の問題って言われている…地球が滅びるまで出来ないって言われている…あの問題?!

 ローゼンツヴァイク ( Rosenzweig )
 I investigated "Rosenzweig", but I couldn't find it out. That may be fiction.

#10 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:28 PM

Here is the math stuff on the white board.
I don't know whether this is useful or not...


N={1,2,3,…}
0∈N
a∈N s(a)∈N
s(a)≠0
a≠b ⇒ s(a)≠s(b)
A⊂N に対して
 0∈A
 a∈A ⇒ s(a)∈A
ならば、A=N
ペアノの公理

定数記号 1,2,3,…を定義する
1=s(0), 2=s(s(0))
3=s(s(s(0))), …
Nにおける加法の定義
 定義1 a+0=a   (0:加法の単位元)
 定義2 a+s(b)=s(a+b)   (a,b∈N)
この定義により写像 a⇔a+b が定義されるような、b全体の集合Aは
0∈A, b∈A ⇒ s(b)∈A を満たすので、
ペアノの公理より、∀b∈N に対して、写像 N⇒N, a⇔a+bが定義される。
加法の定義 a∈N に対して、s(a)=a+1が成り立つとき、
∵ s(a)=s(a+0)=a+s(0)=a+1
a=1 とすると、s(1)=1+1 …
一方、s(1)=s(s(0))=2 …
,より、1+1=2          Q.E.D.

#11 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:39 PM

Thanks! I made the regular corrections, but I'll have to get to those math parts later today. I left 10:38 alone, since that was how it was translated in the first episode and when it's been used in the flashbacks before.

#12 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:14 PM

Please correct this. The others except math parts are OK.

19:23
line 2
 → 私が仕切っちゃうんだから!
意訳 数学バトルを審判するのは私よ!

#13 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:35 PM

Okay, I added in the math parts, but I imagine they're completely wrong. I just put math words in an order in which I thought they made sense, but I have no idea what she's talking about. We really need someone like Kirarinsnow to explain it.

#14 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:18 AM

I think some math terms need to be changed. Please refer to this.

任意 = arbitrary
部分集合 = subset
含む = contain or include  含まれる = contained or included
加法 = addition
単位元 = identity element


9:53
line 2
for the axiom 0 can’t be specified,
 → 公理には定数記号0しか明記されてないから
意訳 公理には定数記号0だけが明記されているので

line 5
N can be defined as follows:
 → Nにおいて加法が以下のように定義できる
意訳 Nにおいて、加法は次のように定義できる

10:20
line 1
in short, adding the former to units of 0.
 → つまり0を加法に関する単位元とする
意訳 つまり、0は加法の単位元になる


a+s(0)=a+1. (I think this one blends in with the skirt line)

That one is between 10:53 and 11:00.

#15 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:53 PM

I tried to make what changes I could to the math, but again, I don't even know how to explain it in English. You might want to contact someone better at math to get it perfectly translated.

#16 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 31 March 2012 - 04:49 AM

I also tried to translate it. How about this? You could change it for better.

7:23

First of all, a set N is made of the non-negative integers.
0 is an element of N.
If a is also an element of N… The only one… Then it exists.
With the arbitrary element of N that are a and b, the subset A contains 0.
If a is contained… when s(a) is also contained… A becomes equal to N.

9:53

I’ll continue proving it.
First off, in order to get ready to prove it, we have to show the constant symbol for just the axiom 0 can be specified,
the constant symbol can be defined as follows:
1=s(0)、2=s(s(0))、3=s(s(s(0))).
Using Peano’s Axioms, an addition of N can be defined as follows:

10:20

Define 1. If a is an element of N, a+0=a, in short, 0 is the identity element of addition.
Define 2. a+s(b)=s(a+b).

11:59

That’s all. Q.E.D.!

Reference: constant symbol

9:53

I’ll continue the proving it.
First off, in order to get ready to prove it, we have to show the constant of the symbol for the axiom 0 can’t be specified,
Such as to next define the constant.
1=s(0)、2=s(s(0))、3=s(s(s(0))).
Using Peano’s Axioms, N can be defined as follows:


10:17

Alright! Nina-sama’s got this!
Go for it!

9:53

I’ll continue proving it.
First off, in order to get ready to prove it, we have to show the constant of the symbol for just the axiom 0 can be specified,
Such as to next define the constant.
1=s(0)、2=s(s(0))、3=s(s(s(0))).
Using Peano’s Axioms, in addition to N, we can also define the following:

The paragraph of 9:53 are double. It would be better to delete one.

#17 KirarinSnow

KirarinSnow
  • H!P Egg

Posted 31 March 2012 - 04:52 AM

Hi, folks. I just watched the episode, and will go over the math tomorrow. I'm so tired right now from having hosted prospective students at our linguistics department for the last few days and have barely had time to do anything else, so I can't think about Peano axioms right now. :sleeping:

#18 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 31 March 2012 - 07:03 PM

Okay, I've deleted that set of lines that got doubled and I've made a few changes to the math using Masa's suggestions, but I'm still leaving the final details to Kirarinsnow.

#19 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:20 AM

9:53
line 5
in addition, N can be defined as follows:

"N" has already been defined.
In this lines, the subject is "addition".

#20 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:59 AM

I changed it again, but I'm not sure which is better, "we can define additions to N" or "we can define what is added to N?"

#21 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:20 AM

Nにおける加法の定義
 定義1 a+0=a   (0:加法の単位元)
 定義2 a+s(b)=s(a+b)   (a,b∈N)

10:20
Define 1. If a is an element of N, a+0=a, in short, 0 is the identity element for addition.
Define 2. a+s(b)=s(a+b).


All things considered, it may be "The rule of addition in the set N can be defined as follows:".

How about that?

#22 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:30 AM

Okay, I used that to make another change, but I imagine it will all be rewritten by Kirarinsnow since he actually understands the logic behind the math.

#23 aine

aine
  • 名無しさん‮

Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:23 PM

This episode seems like a toughie... :unsure:

Anyway, I started working with the script we have to date. But a Sunday evening release is rather unlikely.

Al - I removed the bold tags from your script post. This will make it easier for me to update the timed script once you incorporate Kirarin's updates. Hope you don't feel too violated. :whistling:

#24 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 01 April 2012 - 06:48 PM

Do you want me to put his updates in bold then if we get them?

#25 aine

aine
  • 名無しさん‮

Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:02 PM

Do you want me to put his updates in bold then if we get them?

Yes, please. That's why I removed the old ones, so I don't confuse them with the new ones when they come.

#26 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:11 PM

Okay. And if he can't get to it for some reason, I think what Masa and I have done is decent enough, especially since I think the math at the end is supposed to be impossible to understand to people now knowledgeable on the subject.

#27 KirarinSnow

KirarinSnow
  • H!P Egg

Posted 01 April 2012 - 10:49 PM

Here it is; sorry for the delay. (Oh, and btw, I'm not a 'he'. :whistling: )



7:23 [this part is a bit confusing due to the scene transitions; I can't quite parse some of it (the [??]'s). I've indicated transitions with a "/". ℕ is the set of natural numbers; if you can't show the character in the subs, it should be a capital boldfaced N.]

First, let ℕ be the set of natural numbers including 0.
0 is an element of ℕ.
If a is an element of ℕ ... /
... but one [??] after that ... /
... exists. / ["then it exists" makes no sense.]
For any [??] a and b in ℕ ... / [there's a transition here; it makes no sense if it's contiguous with the next line]
... A includes 0. /
If a being an element implies that s(a) is an element ... /
... then A is equal to ℕ.
It’s the Peano axioms. ['axioms' shouldn't be capitalized.]

9:53

This is how you continue the proof.
First off, in order set up the proof, since only the numeral 0 has been defined in the axioms, we define the subsequent numbers:
1 = s(0), 2 = s(s(0)), 3 = s(s(s(0))).
Using the Peano axioms, addition in ℕ can be defined as follows.


10:20

Definition 1. For any element a in ℕ, a + 0 = a (that is, 0 is the additive identity).
Define 2. a + s(b) = s(a + b).

10:56 [fades in from background, but the full equation here should be "s(a) = s(a + 0) = a + s(0) = a + 1"]

... s(a + 0) = a + s(0) = a + 1


The parts in 11:06 and 11:40 are essentially correct. It'd be best to put the red numbers in circles (①, ②).

I can't find anything on "Rosenzweig's demonic function" (by convention, the 'd' and 'f' shouldn't be capitalized) or variations thereof; I guess it's made up (the stuff on the board uses the Gamma function and the Dirichlet L-function, related to the famous still-unsolved Riemann hypothesis [this is what I thought it was referring to when I first watched it]). It doesn't entirely make sense to "prove a function", but it seems to be what the dialogue has, so ok.

Edited by KirarinSnow, 01 April 2012 - 11:07 PM.


#28 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:15 AM

Thanks! I think I've gotten everything matched up with the line format we had written. Aine will need to see your notes about the bold N since I had to put all the changes in bold.

#29 masa

masa
  • Berryz 工房

Posted 02 April 2012 - 02:26 AM

The parts in 11:06 and 11:40 are essentially correct. It'd be best to put the red numbers in circles (①, ②).

11:06
This formula shows that if a=1, s(1)=1+1. This is 1.
 → This formula shows that if a=1, s(1)=1+1. This is ①.

11:40
line 2~3
Since 1=s(0), s(1)=s(s(0))=2. This is 2.
Therefore, using 1 and 2, 1+1=2.
 → Since 1=s(0), s(1)=s(s(0))=2. This is ②.
   Therefore, using ① and ②, 1+1=2.


Oh, and btw, I'm not a 'he'. :whistling:

You should have changed your profile... :hahaha:

#30 aine

aine
  • 名無しさん‮

Posted 02 April 2012 - 11:27 PM

This one is going pretty slow, regardless of the final script being ready a bit late or not. I don't know if it's the gravity of the last episode, or the amount of little things to polish in it, or just my busy schedule recently.

But I wanted to let you know I'm on it and closer to the finish rather than the start. :thumbsup: