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Occupy Hong Kong 17 replies to this topic Started by Madara , Sep 28 2014 02:56 PM · 

#1 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 28 September 2014 - 02:56 PM

Things are getting interesting as the pro-democracy movement heats up among students in Hong Kong:

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ref=todayspaper



#2 aine

aine
  • 名無しさん‮

Posted 28 September 2014 - 06:50 PM

Hong Kong protests live stream

It's 3 AM in Hong Kong so it's mostly re-runs now, but watching it earlier was pretty heartbreaking. I hope they will stick it out.

#3 strawberryjam

strawberryjam
  • 士多啤梨 bunny ? ♡ (・x・)

Posted 28 September 2014 - 08:41 PM

This is an issue I'm emotionally attached to. I'm glad to see they are finally doing something about it.

 

To me, it's really important to preserve the culture/language of a place and full democracy is really needed for this or China is going to start pushing more of their policies like putting Mandarin/propoganda in the education system. But not everyone in Hong Kong is in agreement with protests to this due to economic reasons. Hong Kong's survival largely depends on doing business with China. I wish full independence was possible, but highly unlikely.

 

I spoke to my mom about this. She's from Guangzhou and escaped(yes, escaped) to live in Hong Kong for around 10 years before moving to America.

Her opinion was that Hong Kongers should just move to another country or deal with it.

I was quite disapointed. Perhaps I just have a Western mentality that life isn't worth living if you don't stand up for your rights..

 

The whole thing makes me really sad. :sad:

 

 



#4 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 29 September 2014 - 09:58 AM

This is an issue I'm emotionally attached to. I'm glad to see they are finally doing something about it.

 

To me, it's really important to preserve the culture/language of a place and full democracy is really needed for this or China is going to start pushing more of their policies like putting Mandarin/propoganda in the education system. But not everyone in Hong Kong is in agreement with protests to this due to economic reasons. Hong Kong's survival largely depends on doing business with China. I wish full independence was possible, but highly unlikely.

 

I spoke to my mom about this. She's from Guangzhou and escaped(yes, escaped) to live in Hong Kong for around 10 years before moving to America.

Her opinion was that Hong Kongers should just move to another country or deal with it.

I was quite disapointed. Perhaps I just have a Western mentality that life isn't worth living if you don't stand up for your rights..

 

The whole thing makes me really sad. :sad:

 

My heart is with you, Berry. I just wish more adults--and business people--had the guts to stand with the students.

 

Here's an update in today's New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.c...odayspaper&_r=0



#5 NekoKai

NekoKai
  • ANGERME

Posted 30 September 2014 - 01:43 PM

This whole situation is rather confusing for me since I thought Hong Kong was autonomous.  I'm glad they're fighting for their rights, and I hope they succeed.



#6 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:50 PM

This whole situation is rather confusing for me since I thought Hong Kong was autonomous.  I'm glad they're fighting for their rights, and I hope they succeed.

 

I just had an argument with a young female co-worker from Mainland China who swallows the party line and thinks the students were put up to it and that they have it much better under China than they did under British rule. She insisted that they're all Chinese, that China is their country. And I said they didn't grow up in "China," they grew up in Hong Kong which has a whole different culture and way of life than China and they don't feel the same way you do. I said it's like New Yorkers. Most New Yorkers feel they don't have anything in common with the rest of America.



#7 NekoKai

NekoKai
  • ANGERME

Posted 30 September 2014 - 10:50 PM

What does she think of Tiananmen Square?  Or does she even know about it?  I don't know how much better/worse it is under China than Britain, I mean there hasn't been full democracy under either country.  Though that's just in regards to government, and your co-worker was more than likely talking about a multifaceted better/worse.  Your New York analogy is pretty good, though the difference is that a lot of people (like Berry's mom) fled China to Hong Kong or are the kids/grandkids of people who did, so there's even more of a divide.



#8 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 30 September 2014 - 11:59 PM

As a thinking, well-read person with an interest in China and its history, I can understand intellectually the mind-set involved here, but as an American I find it very difficult to understand emotionally and to accept the way things are. Same with Japan. I try valiantly to understand Japan emotionally, but then I come smack up against a brick wall, as happened this summer when I experienced Japanese intransigence firsthand when I ran afoul of Up Front's management. My immediate thought when I was confronted with their demands was, "This is how World War II started. I get it now."  When I hear about Chinese suppression of dissidents and jailing of people just for writing their points-of-view, I get angry all over again there, too. We've just seen this too often and no one takes China to task for it. I have some emotional connection to Hong Kong, for various reasons, and I'd hate to see it lose its unique identity because a hard-liner is now running the PRC.

 

I want China to change. I want Japan to change. Hell, I want America to change. But what can I do? It's awfully presumptuous of Americans to insert themselves into another culture and tell them they have to change while the U.S. becomes a national security state and extends surveillance over American citizens' private communications and sends weapons all over the world and supports so-called "rebels" who then turn the weapons on us which leads to terror alerts here. I saw cops all over my subway station today because of an "orange" terror alert in NYC and, I'm assuming, a significant population of muslims in my neighborhood.

 

But I still want the Chinese people to stand up for themselves and obtain a greater degree of freedom than they've ever had, and I think I have a right to want that. Chinese prisons are full of people there who want that also. And I want Hong Kongers to maintain the level of freedom they're used to. And I want Japan to come to grip with its past and stop whitewashing it and covering it up. As a child of parents who both served in the war effort against Japan, I think I have that right as well. And I want Americans to stop being so compliant with the military-corporate-government-industrial-national security complex that's gained so much power in the last 30-odd years. Where does one begin? "Throw off your iPhones!" It's like we're living in THE MATRIX and we just have to unplug to be free!

 



#9 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 01 October 2014 - 09:54 AM

More on the continuing protest in Hong Kong:

 

http://www.nytimes.c...odayspaper&_r=0

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ref=todayspaper

 

http://www.nytimes.c...&pgtype=article

 

 

What Taiwan thinks of all this:

 

http://www.bbc.com/n...d-asia-29422233



#10 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:35 AM

The 17-year-old, Joshua Wong, who started it all:

http://www.nytimes.c...ref=todayspaper



#11 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 03 October 2014 - 10:45 AM

Waiting it out:

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ref=todayspaper

 

Read the comments if you want to get a wider range of P-O-V's.

 

 

And some in Hong Kong are not crazy about the protests:

http://www.nytimes.c...odayspaper&_r=0



#12 NekoKai

NekoKai
  • ANGERME

Posted 05 October 2014 - 06:03 PM

It seems like the protesters are clearing the streets so people can get to work again, but will still protest at the government buildings.  I hope they manage to get China to stay out of their elections.

 

Off topic, but North and South Korea are going to have talks and I'm really pleased.  Also, apparently Kim Jong Un hasn't been seen in over a month and before that he was seen limping.



#13 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 08 October 2014 - 08:44 PM

The protests from a cinematic HK perspective:

 

http://mobile.nytime...-kongs-turmoil/
 



#14 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:56 AM

China is blacklisting Hong Kong celebrities who show support for the protests:

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ref=todayspaper



#15 strawberryjam

strawberryjam
  • 士多啤梨 bunny ? ♡ (・x・)

Posted 26 October 2014 - 07:05 AM

As a thinking, well-read person with an interest in China and its history, I can understand intellectually the mind-set involved here, but as an American I find it very difficult to understand emotionally and to accept the way things are. Same with Japan. I try valiantly to understand Japan emotionally, but then I come smack up against a brick wall, as happened this summer when I experienced Japanese intransigence firsthand when I ran afoul of Up Front's management. My immediate thought when I was confronted with their demands was, "This is how World War II started. I get it now."  When I hear about Chinese suppression of dissidents and jailing of people just for writing their points-of-view, I get angry all over again there, too. We've just seen this too often and no one takes China to task for it. I have some emotional connection to Hong Kong, for various reasons, and I'd hate to see it lose its unique identity because a hard-liner is now running the PRC.

 

I want China to change. I want Japan to change. Hell, I want America to change. But what can I do? It's awfully presumptuous of Americans to insert themselves into another culture and tell them they have to change while the U.S. becomes a national security state and extends surveillance over American citizens' private communications and sends weapons all over the world and supports so-called "rebels" who then turn the weapons on us which leads to terror alerts here. I saw cops all over my subway station today because of an "orange" terror alert in NYC and, I'm assuming, a significant population of muslims in my neighborhood.

 

But I still want the Chinese people to stand up for themselves and obtain a greater degree of freedom than they've ever had, and I think I have a right to want that. Chinese prisons are full of people there who want that also. And I want Hong Kongers to maintain the level of freedom they're used to. And I want Japan to come to grip with its past and stop whitewashing it and covering it up. As a child of parents who both served in the war effort against Japan, I think I have that right as well. And I want Americans to stop being so compliant with the military-corporate-government-industrial-national security complex that's gained so much power in the last 30-odd years. Where does one begin? "Throw off your iPhones!" It's like we're living in THE MATRIX and we just have to unplug to be free!

I meant to respond to this a lot sooner. But I'm happy that there's someone that's not of Hong Kong descent (I'm not really even) that cares! Even if a bit teary eyed, lol. Hong Kong is but a small city in this world and for people to care..

 

My sister in law is from Mainland China and she says the same exact stuff as your co-worker.

She gets upset that I don't think I'm Chinese, her Mainland Chinese anyways. She also dislikes that I like Japanese culture so much. I don't dare ask her about Tiananmen Square. She would get very defensive and passionate. In some ways, I don't blame her, there is a lot of racism between Hong Kongers and Mainland Chinese. Having said that, my own co-worker (German btw) the other day was telling me about he has a Chinese friend that is still frustrated about Japanese / WWII, etc and that he should learn to let go. That got me really riled up.

 

The youngest generation of Hong Kong seems to think similarly at least. They don't think they are Chinese, they're Hong Kongers. Even though support has been dwindling for quite some time and media coverage has also fallen off the radar, I really hope they'll get what they want. I've been having a hard time keeping up myself, but it looks like the talks aren't doing much. I hope these students will be the leaders of the future honestly. 

 

I hope that Hong Kongers don't consider leaving Hong Kong to escape this as all previous generations did. Hong Kong is such a unique place and people should really stand up for that. And the one time I wish US would actually get involved .. but they won't. Although the UK should really be getting more involved. They must have some sort of authority if they don't feel China is living up to it's handover agreement..

 

aine and I went to a protest in Dublin to show our support. Some people passing by said 'Konnichiwa' to us..

 

China is blacklisting Hong Kong celebrities who show support for the protests:

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ref=todayspaper

Completely despicable.

In recent times, Hong Konger entertainers have doing more to cater towards Mainlanders. If they're singers, half their albums are now in Mandarin instead of Cantonese. I hate to see that, but it is all about money. But to see some celebrities stand up for the protesters and take a cut of their pay check makes me happy it's not all about money for everyone.

It looks like Kenny G went to hang out with the protesters and posted pictures online, but deleted all of them later and made a statement he didn't support them. It's upsetting even a Westerner doesn't have the guts to show support!



#16 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:53 AM

Relative to Berry's post, I once used my blog to express my wish for a boycott of the Beijing Olympics (2008) and I got an angry response from a Malaysian/Chinese friend of mine (Malaysian-born but of Chinese descent and living in Hong Kong) who called me hypocritical for criticizing China when the U.S. was running the prison at Guantanamo. I responded that China had thousands of Guantanamos and why wasn't she criticizing that and she responded that she and I just look at human rights differently. When I pointed out that when the U.S. was fighting in WWII to free China (and other Asian countries) from Japanese occupation, would she have called it hypocritical even though the U.S. still had Jim Crow laws on the books. Her response: oh, that's ancient history. So I basically lost a friend over that. We both still encounter each other occasionally on an Asian film forum where there's a thread on the Hong Kong protests and this former friend pointed out that Totoro had popped up at the HK protests. In response I made a joke headline that said:

 

TOTORO DETAINED ON BEIJING'S ORDERS, ENRAGING JAPAN, ANIME FANS AND CHILDREN WORLDWIDE!

 

She responded in the next post, rather humorlessly:

 

 what a sad scenario you imagine. I, on the other hand, prefer to envision Totoro as free!
 

 

...which completely sidesteps my implication that Beijing would arrest even Totoro to achieve its ends.

 

In any event, there's an article in today's New York Times that points out that, despite criticisms from China that no one in HK ever demonstrated for suffrage during British rule, there were in fact efforts to democratize in the decades before the handover and Beijing vehemently protested all of them:

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ref=todayspaper

 

 



#17 strawberryjam

strawberryjam
  • 士多啤梨 bunny ? ♡ (・x・)

Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:01 PM

I really don't understand those arguments at all.. I heard from a friend of mine who is a boyfriend of a Japanese girl that China is totally twisting all this stuff out of proportion making Japan look really bad as part of their China's national propaganda. While it could entirely be true, does it matter? Does it make what Japanese people did right?

Everything wrong should be fixed. Whether it's Guantanamo or this matter at hand about Hong Kong..

 

There's so much about this that makes me so sad and frustrated. Why would anyone want to live in a country without freedom to choose what they want? They're not China and they can voice their opinion so why don't they do something? I just can't get over this.

 

An interesting thing is that Taiwan is probably not likely to ever re-join China. It would be nice if Hong Kong and Taiwan could team up somehow..



#18 Ap2000

Ap2000
  • I program stuff.

Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:22 PM

I really don't understand those arguments at all.. I heard from a friend of mine who is a boyfriend of a Japanese girl that China is totally twisting all this stuff out of proportion making Japan look really bad as part of their China's national propaganda. While it could entirely be true, does it matter? Does it make what Japanese people did right?

Everything wrong should be fixed. Whether it's Guantanamo or this matter at hand about Hong Kong..

 

There's so much about this that makes me so sad and frustrated. Why would anyone want to live in a country without freedom to choose what they want? They're not China and they can voice their opinion so why don't they do something? I just can't get over this.

 

An interesting thing is that Taiwan is probably not likely to ever re-join China. It would be nice if Hong Kong and Taiwan could team up somehow..

 

I think the biggest problem here is (the lack of) emancipation.

Taiwan has been split from the mainland and called itself the original China for so many years, they see themselves not as a protectorate of another country at all.

HK, on the other hand, has been under direct outside influence for a lot of decades. I also wouldn't be surprised that many conservative people think it's safer to be part of China than to be independent.

 

Very unfortunately, I don't see Taiwan and HK joining forces in any way since they have such a different background.