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Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~ Spam H!P stuff that's just random fluff. 2162 replies to this topic Started by Saya , Jan 18 2015 10:50 AM · 

#1891 aine

aine
  • 名無しさん‮

Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:26 AM

Do all these cases put together strike anyone else as a failure built into the KSS system itself?

 

I know no idol group ever formed organically (you're welcome to throw maximum of 3 examples to the contrary my way, but you get the point, it's not normal), but in the whole history of Hellopro the auditions and getting picked for the group were always a huge deal. Like real huge. You could almost walk in from the street as a nobody and walk out the nation's next idol super star.

 

The KSS-based members and groups have changed this dynamic entirely. With KSS being for all practical purposes an idol school with tuition and all I feel it creates a service buyer/service provider situation and with it the attitude of expectation and demand of result on the member's (or perhaps even more on the parents') part. Now I'm sure the KSS contract states it very clearly that no debut or future success is guaranteed, but is it not natural to at least sub-consciously expect something in return for the financial investment and time spent rehearsing and whatnot?

 

What I'm trying to say, back when you were picked as the new Morning Musume after the nationally televised gruelling audition it was really fucking special. Part winning a lottery, part surviving Tsunku's personal little Battle Royale. You would cherish and defend your spot, and put sweat, blood and tears to make it work and to fit in and contribute to the group against all odds.

 

Now with Kenshuusei - yes, there are auditions, but they surely aren't as strict and demanding as the major group auditions, and you still pay to be in the program. If you debut in a group and you're not really feeling it then there's much less pressure to stick with it. You come to terms with the fact that you were sold a dud, you cut your financial losses, pack up your stuff and leave, with or without a bang. It doesn't really matter that much since whatever you learned in the program you can take with you and use it to debut under a different label.

 

Am I completely crazy for thinking this is what's happening?



#1892 JPope

JPope
  • Dick

Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:37 AM

I think it's more that the number of girls entering the idol business overall has exploded and the expectations of many of the girls who pursue it have changed. It has become a hobby for a lot of girls who audition for groups or KSS-like programs, and not necessarily the serious long-term commitment that it was back in the day. Also, this explosion of idols in recent years has necessarily decreased the value of being an idol.

Being an idol used to be special because it was an exclusive group, and while being an H!P idol still holds more value than most other companies, the audience for idol groups has become fractured and Balkanized, and the sheer number of groups necessarily means being an idol is less special now. It's the old adage: if everyone's a rock star, then no one's a rock star. With that in mind, it's not surprising that even H!P is seeing more girls wash-out as they experience the rigors of professional idol life after they debut, and decide it's more than they want to deal with. 



#1893 Anderei

Anderei
  • つんく♂

Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:24 AM

Do all these cases put together strike anyone else as a failure built into the KSS system itself?

I know no idol group ever formed organically (you're welcome to throw maximum of 3 examples to the contrary my way, but you get the point, it's not normal), but in the whole history of Hellopro the auditions and getting picked for the group were always a huge deal. Like real huge. You could almost walk in from the street as a nobody and walk out the nation's next idol super star.

The KSS-based members and groups have changed this dynamic entirely. With KSS being for all practical purposes an idol school with tuition and all I feel it creates a service buyer/service provider situation and with it the attitude of expectation and demand of result on the member's (or perhaps even more on the parents') part. Now I'm sure the KSS contract states it very clearly that no debut or future success is guaranteed, but is it not natural to at least sub-consciously expect something in return for the financial investment and time spent rehearsing and whatnot?

What I'm trying to say, back when you were picked as the new Morning Musume after the nationally televised gruelling audition it was really fucking special. Part winning a lottery, part surviving Tsunku's personal little Battle Royale. You would cherish and defend your spot, and put sweat, blood and tears to make it work and to fit in and contribute to the group against all odds.

Now with Kenshuusei - yes, there are auditions, but they surely aren't as strict and demanding as the major group auditions, and you still pay to be in the program. If you debut in a group and you're not really feeling it then there's much less pressure to stick with it. You come to terms with the fact that you were sold a dud, you cut your financial losses, pack up your stuff and leave, with or without a bang. It doesn't really matter that much since whatever you learned in the program you can take with you and use it to debut under a different label.

Am I completely crazy for thinking this is what's happening?


H!P has actually got a pretty good track record as far as girls sticking around once they debut. Also, the program is no longer paid iirc.

#1894 DonJuan

DonJuan
  • モーニング娘。

Posted 09 July 2017 - 03:11 PM

(Note: monthly bitter shitpost.)

 

I'm expecting a graduation announcement on the first day of H!P's summer concert (next week). 

We're currently in a rather awkward phase of H!P with many changes and H!P seems like it wants to cut ties with its past (at least with the non-profitable one). Also, some members definitely are over their prime. 

 

MM:

Quite a few people have commented on MM becoming too big. Granted, what Tsunku said (that the group will never be as big as at their biggest again) has no meaning anymore since he's not the one to decide it, and maybe their management thinks the more the merrier (or rather: more handshakes = better sales), but I'm sure that we're gonna see at least one graduation next year, maybe even another one this year (shotgun grad at the fall concert or during the Hello-Goodbye one). Honestly, when I say that some members are over their prime I'm only talking about MM. 

5 members are going to graduate high school next year. Granted, Kaede and Morito probably won't leave so soon after just joining, Miki is just about to get closer to the front and Duu has already announced her graduation, but the last one, Masaki, doesn't seem that unlikely to graduate. If her back acts up even after treatment then idol business with MM isn't for her (anymore). Which is sad, because I hate it if girls have to graduate due to medical reasons. (To be honest it's never been confirmed that the reason why she was out during the last concert was her back but I can't imagine her looking horrible was due to her earpiece not working.) 

Of the others, Mizuki looks pretty done lately. The Morito-situation definitely has left a mark. She and Ayumi also can't really move anywhere else in the group - their position is more or less frozen. With Ikuta I'm always wondering whether she's at her end or just taking a break haha. Lately she's been looking better. Haruna, as much as I love her, can't reach much more either - you can get only so far in MM if you're not aggressive enough. Even with Sakura I wonder. On the one hand she probably hasn't mentioned anything to management yet or else they would've added a better singer to the group, but on the other hand she doesn't improve either. However she also doesn't have anything besides MM. They should better let her build up something while being in MM, she's not in school anymore either so she should be fine.

12ki and up seem unlikely to graduate. Some people have mentioned Oharu but well. I guess she could go, but she doesn't give me the impression. Miki, as mentioned, is doing fine, Maria is super popular and Akane has enough time to improve. 

 

ANGERME:

Now... I don't want anyone to graduate from ANGERME, but them adding 2 members worries me. On the one hand there's of course always the possibility that Maho is not coming back. While Dawa said that she doesn't want to graduate there's always a possibility. Then we've got 2ki. Takechan basically said she wants to replace Momoko in terms of TV work so I'm not that worried, but idols talk a lot. Rina, well, Rina is Rina. You'll never know. Kana is being propped as subleader so I'm not too worried about her either but yeah, you never know. 

 

Juice=Juice:

Yeah, adding two members to a long stable line-up looks weird. I fear for Yuka and Tomoko. Please stay with me. 

 

The Factories:

While I think these are rather safe, Kobushi just having lost Rio and Tsubaki just getting new members last year, it's absolutely possible that Kiki won't come back. Her last update was that she's "unable to perform" (at the moment). That'd be really sad considering Tsubaki's short history and her being probably the best that has happened to the group aside from Kishimon and the new members. 

 

Country Girls:

Honestly, while they said they were on hiatus I wouldn't be surprised if Ozeko or Yamaki just called it quits next year. 

 

/monthly rant over



#1895 Haru

Haru
  • (◡‿◡✿)

Posted 09 July 2017 - 08:19 PM

Do all these cases put together strike anyone else as a failure built into the KSS system itself?

 

I know no idol group ever formed organically (you're welcome to throw maximum of 3 examples to the contrary my way, but you get the point, it's not normal), but in the whole history of Hellopro the auditions and getting picked for the group were always a huge deal. Like real huge. You could almost walk in from the street as a nobody and walk out the nation's next idol super star.

 

The KSS-based members and groups have changed this dynamic entirely. With KSS being for all practical purposes an idol school with tuition and all I feel it creates a service buyer/service provider situation and with it the attitude of expectation and demand of result on the member's (or perhaps even more on the parents') part. Now I'm sure the KSS contract states it very clearly that no debut or future success is guaranteed, but is it not natural to at least sub-consciously expect something in return for the financial investment and time spent rehearsing and whatnot?

 

What I'm trying to say, back when you were picked as the new Morning Musume after the nationally televised gruelling audition it was really fucking special. Part winning a lottery, part surviving Tsunku's personal little Battle Royale. You would cherish and defend your spot, and put sweat, blood and tears to make it work and to fit in and contribute to the group against all odds.

 

Now with Kenshuusei - yes, there are auditions, but they surely aren't as strict and demanding as the major group auditions, and you still pay to be in the program. If you debut in a group and you're not really feeling it then there's much less pressure to stick with it. You come to terms with the fact that you were sold a dud, you cut your financial losses, pack up your stuff and leave, with or without a bang. It doesn't really matter that much since whatever you learned in the program you can take with you and use it to debut under a different label.

 

Am I completely crazy for thinking this is what's happening?

One flaw with your theory: Uta wasn't KSS.



#1896 Anderei

Anderei
  • つんく♂

Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:19 PM

Lurkette from H!O translated Murotan's interview with Top Yell. We don't get many translations of stuff these days, so I thought I'd post it.

 

Images:

 

Spoiler

 

Interview:

Spoiler



#1897 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 10 July 2017 - 01:16 AM

Wow, she's way too modest. And I'm glad she acknowledged Fukuda's strength as a singer.



#1898 Mizura

Mizura
  • ANGERME

Posted 10 July 2017 - 06:32 PM

That was an interesting read. The group definitely has a good dynamic. Not having a hierarchy between the different generations seems to have been a good thing for them.

#1899 Derby

Derby
  • モーニング娘。

Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:08 PM

I'm linking this youtube channel I suscribed to the other week through a recommended video, in case you're curious or wanted to watch this.

It uploads super old videos of morning musume including some asayan clips



#1900 Anderei

Anderei
  • つんく♂

Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:46 AM

Angerme were on a variety show called Mayonaka Shownin and it was subbed.

 

It's especially a good watch if you're a Take-chan or Dawa fan. Because they do 90% of the talking lol.



#1901 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 12 July 2017 - 03:25 AM

Angerme were on a variety show called Mayonaka Shownin and it was subbed.

 

It's especially a good watch if you're a Take-chan or Dawa fan. Because they do 90% of the talking lol.

 

That's actually a really excellent history of the group and just how much shit 1st and 2nd gen S/mileage had to go through.



#1902 aine

aine
  • 名無しさん‮

Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:32 AM

I think it's more that the number of girls entering the idol business overall has exploded and the expectations of many of the girls who pursue it have changed. It has become a hobby for a lot of girls who audition for groups or KSS-like programs, and not necessarily the serious long-term commitment that it was back in the day. Also, this explosion of idols in recent years has necessarily decreased the value of being an idol.
Being an idol used to be special because it was an exclusive group, and while being an H!P idol still holds more value than most other companies, the audience for idol groups has become fractured and Balkanized, and the sheer number of groups necessarily means being an idol is less special now. It's the old adage: if everyone's a rock star, then no one's a rock star. With that in mind, it's not surprising that even H!P is seeing more girls wash-out as they experience the rigors of professional idol life after they debut, and decide it's more than they want to deal with.

That makes a lot of sense. It does seem that idol is an "in" thing again now - just not in the way it used to be back when Morning Musume ruled supreme at the break of 90's and 00's, or even the period of AKB steamrolling everything within their reach. Rather, it's the obscure idols performing almost nightly in obscure clubs to audiences of 50 at best, with CD-R releases if any, and hardly any promotion beyond the word of mouth and maybe a twitter account. I think there is some obvious death-and-rebirth metaphor waiting to be pointed out here.
 
It makes me wonder though, with the number of ho-hum and nothing-burger auditions that Hellopro has increasingly fallen victim to over the years, is this underground idol scene sucking out all the future mainstream stars who simply don't have Tsunku-P or a similar genius to discover them and help them uncover their potential? Or is it a generational thing and girls other than Cuca simply don't care enough to persevere because between the instant gratification of social media and the optional part-time indie-idol gig they get all the fame they ever wanted?
 
One thing I regret is that we'll probably never learn about the underground idols of the Nineties/Noughties, if there even were any. I'd love to know how they compared to today, but I wouldn't know where to even start looking for any records from that time. Even materials about Visual Kei which was it back then are very skimpy.
 
Anyway, remember how we used to joke about the time when Musumes would have their own musumes - well, with even the baby Asuka Fukuda being 32 now this time is very much already here. But it seems that instead of a geometrical iteration of musumeness that we have naively speculated about we've got an entirely different kind of a deal instead. Maybe we need to wait another 20 years for the trends to swing back. ¯\(O_o)/¯
 

Also, the program is no longer paid iirc.

One flaw with your theory: Uta wasn't KSS.

Good job ruining my perfect theory guys, thanks a lot! :dammit:

#1903 Anderei

Anderei
  • つんく♂

Posted 12 July 2017 - 12:56 PM

Indie groups lose people all the time, I'd say most have a much harder time keeping a stable lineup than the bigger groups.

For many girls it IS a part time thing. Some girls have actual jobs they go to (before they disbanded and reformed, BiS had a member graduate because she needed to find work) and do the idol thing on the side and lots of girls just do it while they're in school. Idols as we think of them today have been around long enough that people can see being one almost never translates to being a super star. The most ambitious of girls probably never even consider it an option.

#1904 Saya

Saya
  • みんな大好っき♥担当

Posted 12 July 2017 - 01:08 PM

Some indie groups seriously have such a high turnover rate.

#1905 Mizura

Mizura
  • ANGERME

Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:28 PM

As someone who spends most of their time following indie groups, the turnover rate rate is very high, even if the CDs are released nationally, most don't ever sell that well. From what I've observed the 48G and 46G rule at the till and for everyone else, you pretty much have to work hard and with a combination of luck to gain popularity.

From what I know, an indies group did exist in the 90s and at least another one in the 80s. There's just not much info on them and I don't remember their names at the moment. If there's at least one, there's definitely more. It's just next to impossible to find information since that was pre-internet era and stuff.

#1906 Thea

Thea
  • 鞘師里保

Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:53 PM

There's clips from some 13ki event featuring Kudou on YT, which I found thanks to the suggestions after looking at Kamiko's Hinafest solo. Here's Futsuu no Shoujo A. Which I have to share because I loved this song when it came out (minus Masaki), and I'm so glad that it evolved to Kuduu taking Tanaka's parts. It feels righteous.

 

For nostalgia, here's 2013 and 2014 as well.



#1907 Zoe

Zoe
  • カントリー・ガールズ

Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:10 PM

There's clips from some 13ki event featuring Kudou on YT, which I found thanks to the suggestions after looking at Kamiko's Hinafest solo. Here's Futsuu no Shoujo A. Which I have to share because I loved this song when it came out (minus Masaki), and I'm so glad that it evolved to Kuduu taking Tanaka's parts. It feels righteous.
 
For nostalgia, here's 2013 and 2014 as well.


It's funny you bring this up cause I was listening to the song on repeat a few times the other day :lol:

Oddly, the thing that stuck out to me the most was how Reina was the only one in the original who sang with vibrato in the song, so it's nice to see that Haruka has made improvement in that area (though still singing plainly on some of the lines).

#1908 JPope

JPope
  • Dick

Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:55 PM

If you want to go down an H!P nostalgia rabbit hole on YT, check out the old_mm channel.

 

Here's a clip of Kanashimi Twilight from some TV appearance in 2007. Not my favorite song by any means, but check out the vocal power in this line-up: Fujimoto, Takahashi, Tanaka, Niigaki, Yoshizawa and Kamei were all good-to-great singers. Sure, the lineup includes the two of the worst singers in MM's history, but that's okay, because the rest of the group was so good.
 
And sweater dress Ai T is the best Ai T.


#1909 Myst

Myst
  • ANGERME

Posted 13 July 2017 - 08:31 PM


If you want to go down an H!P nostalgia rabbit hole on YT, check out the old_mm channel.

Here's a clip of Kanashimi Twilight from some TV appearance in 2007. Not my favorite song by any means, but check out the vocal power in this line-up: Fujimoto, Takahashi, Tanaka, Niigaki, Yoshizawa and Kamei were all good-to-great singers. Sure, the lineup includes the two of the worst singers in MM's history, but that's okay, because the rest of the group was so good.

And sweater dress Ai T is the best Ai T.

Wow I forgot how bad Aika started out as until that chorus line :lol: She eventually got a little better at least... I think this is one of my favorite line-ups though.

#1910 Al Kusanagi

Al Kusanagi
  • Iä! Iä! Sayumi Fhtagn!

Posted 14 July 2017 - 08:26 PM

That video/song with Haruna and Tomoko singing about cats was cute, but then at the end they had a picture of Dawa's kitty that died and I got sad.



#1911 Anderei

Anderei
  • つんく♂

Posted 15 July 2017 - 08:07 PM

lmao most of H!P were at Ongaku no Hi, and MM got their own timeslot. Except it cut to a CM right in the middle of their Jealousyx2 performance.

 

Here's the full performance, though.

 

And the full H!P performance of Renai Revolution 21 (Updated)



#1912 Saya

Saya
  • みんな大好っき♥担当

Posted 16 July 2017 - 12:03 AM

Hahaha that's terrible. Did it resume after the CM?

#1913 Anderei

Anderei
  • つんく♂

Posted 16 July 2017 - 12:09 AM

Yeah, I'm guessing it did.



#1914 Shoujo Q

Shoujo Q
  • ( ื▿ ืʃƪ) #1 Sakura Fangirl

Posted 16 July 2017 - 01:48 PM

Special Edit  of Pitch Pichi Tomodachi featuring JK Ninja Girls & Ninja Oyajis was uploading to the Kobushi Factory Youtube page.



#1915 Derby

Derby
  • モーニング娘。

Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:28 PM

Hahaha that's terrible. Did it resume after the CM?

they had like 3 or 4 commercials, maybe more. Doesn't look like something that they solved asap :lol

but is this show aired live?

 

edit: nevermind I just realized Mizuki has a speech and then it immediately cuts to the beginning of the song lmao



#1916 Anderei

Anderei
  • つんく♂

Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:30 PM

No, it's filmed before airing. MM were on at 1AM and H!P were on at 2AM, if I'm not mistaken.

Edit: it happened before the performance and in the middle, so they aired the full thing again afterwards or something like that.

#1917 Madara

Madara
  • ANGERME

Posted 16 July 2017 - 05:41 PM

I just watched the C-ute Spring 2015 concert tour "The Future Departure" for the first time--a great concert, arguably one of their best--and I had three questions.

 

1) It was performed a year before they announced their disbandment, but I'm wondering if the title of the concert is a clue to their plans. It certainly plays like a graduation concert and its tracklist would have worked just as well as the one they did for Final Live. Did they know that early that they were disbanding?

 

2) They perform "Flashdance (What a Feeling)," a 1984 hit originally performed by Irene Cara for the movie FLASHDANCE. As far as I know, this is the only time C-ute has performed a song entirely in English at a concert Is that true?

 

Also, how come I never heard about this before? It's a big deal. Airi really nails it. Chisato's really good, too. (Maimi's lines were generally indecipherable. And Nacky and Maimai don't get any lines.) Was there any discussion about this back in 2015?

 

3) The end credits list Magnolia Factory (seven members, Natsumi Taguchi is missing) and Camellia Factory (six members), plus five members of KSS (Kaga, Ichioka, Danbara, Kizuki Horie and someone I never heard of, Nagisa Hashimoto). They're all on stage only once, during "Dance de Bakoon," but the camera avoids them and we never see any shots by which they can be recognized in that number. Earlier, four of them--Riko Yamagishi, Lady Kaga, and two I don't recognize (probably Danbara and Horie)--perform the C-ute song "Shock," but when Riko announces it she identifies herself as Kenshuusei and not as Tsubaki Factory. They do backups in a few other numbers and I did spot Rio Fujii once, but they never perform as Kobushi or Tsubaki Factory. Unless they did opening acts that aren't in the DVD. Can anyone straighten this out for me?

 

Thanks.



#1918 DonJuan

DonJuan
  • モーニング娘。

Posted 16 July 2017 - 06:58 PM

On 3), Tsubaki Factory was formed on April 29, while all but 2 concerts of that tour took place before that date. Therefore it makes sense Riko introduced herself as Kenshuusei. 

Hashimoto Nagisa was a Kenshuusei that transfered from the NICE GIRL! Project Kenshuusei. She left the KSS in July 2016, probably due to her age (she was 19 at that point). 

 

I'm not sure if Kobushi was an opening act at one point, Tsubaki was an opening act for the Yokohama Arena concert, though. 



#1919 Valerie

Valerie
  • Supertemp!

Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:18 AM

2) I believe they have done All I Want For Christmas is You by Mariah Carey for a few Christmas/winter dinner shows. Can't remember for sure if it was them or another group.



#1920 Anderei

Anderei
  • つんく♂

Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:46 AM

Speaking of tours, someone on H!O pointed out that Tsubaki are two years into the game and haven't had a tour yet. Like, not even a live house tour. Which is really unusual.