LOST

[Zounder]

Alright, here's some more in-depth thoughts on Across the Sea:



-There are quite a few similarities and differencesbetween MiB and Jacob, and all of them stem from their relationship with their mother. Lost's central themes have been very prevalent throughout the series: Fate vs. Free Will, Science vs. Faith, Good vs. Evil.



Fate vs. Free Will: The woman who raised MiB and Jacob (hereby referred to as their mother) was a distinct believer in fate. She told MiB he absolutely could not leave the island, no matter his desires. When Jacob seemed reluctant to drink the wine, she told him he "had no choice." On the flip side, both MiB and Jacob both share the concept of free will. MiB believes he should be able to leave the island, and usually gives his enemies a warning/choice to back away before he kills them. And we have the quote from Jacob to Ben before Ben kills him, letting him know "he has a choice," directly contrasting the words from his mother. So free will is a belief both of the sons share, unlike their mother.



As an aside, My theory is that eventually, Jack will be offered the wine from some kind of Jacob vision, and Jacob will tell him, "you have a choice."



Good vs. Evil: Way back in seasons 3/4, when we first heard of Jacob, I think we all expected Jacob to be some kind of Godlike, pure, all-good being that could do no wrong. But, what we have slowly come to find came to a confirmation in this episode that Jacob is obviously not all good. His desire for revenge was what led to the smoke monster. He wasn't even the favorite child! And on the flip side, MiB is not all evil. The poor kid just wanted to leave the island, but his mother wouldn't let him, presumably due to a combination of her thinking everyone outside the island is evil, and her desire for him to become to new protector of the island. But now that he is a smoke monster, him leaving would (I'm assuming) disrupt that cave and something terrible would happen, so now he is REALLY stuck, thanks to Jacob.



So let's look at Good vs. Evil in terms of overall humanity. It was their mothers belief that other humans were not worth the trouble, and in fact, her and MiB share the same quote in two different episodes (They destroy, they corrupt...), so this is obviously something they share. And, ironically, though they shared this belief, it's exactly what causes his mother to prevent him from leaving, triggering the chain of events that leads to him turning into the monster. The reason? Their differing opinions on fate vs. free will. MiBs desire to leave the island overrode his disdain for society, and that ultimately led to his downfall.



Meanwhile, Jacob disagreed with his mothers belief that all humans were terrible, saying so himself. So despite falling on the opposite side of the fence on this issue, he ends up prevailing, and here's why...



Science vs. Faith: While this battle is/was primarily fought between Jack and Locke, we see it first with Mib/Jacob. While we saw MiB utilize magnetism and the science of the people on the island to try and escape, it was Jacob's faith in the island and his mother that led him to follow her, despite disagreeing with her. Even after finding out this woman killed their real mother, he still stayed with her. Why? Yeah, it was probably a bit of his goody-two-shoes personality, but he knew, deep down, he was where he needed to be, doing what he needed to be doing, VERY much like Locke, and now, Jack. Mother asked her sons to have faith, and Jacob obliged while MiB didn't. And that was the ultimate difference.



Thousands of years ago, we had Jacob, the Man of Faith, vs. MiB, the man of Science.

In seasons 1 through 5, we had Locke, the Man of Faith, and Jack, the Man of Science.

And now, in a juxtaposition, we have Jack, the Man of Faith, and Locke(MiB), the Man of Science.







I really like how all of these themes are coming together. I think that's the main thing we need to take away from this episode, and possibly, the show as a whole: We are seeing the eternal struggle between all of these conflicting ideals.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='79794' date='May 14 2010, 02:57 AM']Yo Lost! I know you ain't over yet and imma let you finish, but Supernatural was the best ending of 2010.[/quote]



Too bad the show is for homos.

[al kusanagi]

I take it you've never seen it then? Most violent/gory show to ever have been on broadcast TV, darkest sense of humor, and their head writer created the motherfuckin' Tick. Also, an angel in a trenchcoat that calls you assbutt before setting you on fire with a molotov cocktail.





PS. Jack and Sawyer are totally gonna bang.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='79803' date='May 14 2010, 02:37 PM']I take it you've never seen it then? Most violent/gory show to ever have been on broadcast TV, darkest sense of humor, and their head writer created the motherfuckin' Tick. Also, an angel in a trenchcoat that calls you assbutt before setting you on fire with a molotov cocktail.



PS. Jack and Sawyer are totally gonna bang.[/quote]



I watched one episode where one guy has a dream about somebody killing himself and they stop him, but he still dies. Then there's another person who has a vision about a suicide. I don't remember the rest, except for a bad dude, who apparently has pushed these others into suicide via brain waves, who gets killed.

The actors were such dislikable douches (not the characters) that gave off such a pussy feeling, which was really annoying. I can't say I hate the show/idea itself, just the characters.



Anyway, let's stop the OT.

[al kusanagi]

Okay, Jack and Sawyer are still totally gonna bang. There's still more sexual tension between those two than there's ever been between Kate and either of them.

[al kusanagi]

Good episode. I'm wondering if Ben is pure evil or he's going for a major swerve.



Also, is that "Finale Event" they keep mentioning on Sunday the actual finale, or just some ratings cash-in series summary?

[Zounder]

Good episode. I'm wondering if Ben is pure evil or he's going for a major swerve.

Same, I wonder what he has up his sleeve. Him shooting Widmore is interesting, because he has already reconciled with the fact that it was his own fault Alex died, yet he still held a grudge against him. I guess some hatred just doesn't die.

Also, is that "Finale Event" they keep mentioning on Sunday the actual finale, or just some ratings cash-in series summary?

I believe it goes: Two hour summary ---> Two and a half hour finale, starting at 7.

[eri]

Epic. I forgive LOST for such a crappy episode last week.

[Fina]

[quote name='Zounder' post='79940' date='May 18 2010, 09:56 PM'][quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='79939' date='May 18 2010, 10:03 PM']Good episode. I'm wondering if Ben is pure evil or he's going for a major swerve.[/quote]



Same, I wonder what he has up his sleeve. Him shooting Widmore is interesting, because he has already reconciled with the fact that it was his own fault Alex died, yet he still held a grudge against him. I guess some hatred just doesn't die.



[/quote]



If I've learned anything from Lost, it's that Ben always has a plan. I trust in him.



Questions I have for this episode:



1. Where the fuck is Miles? He's probably my favorite alive-character left and now I don't know where he is.

2. Is Richard dead?

3. Whoooo is David's motherrrr?



Sunday please come quick.



Wait, wait, got to add one more question: Creepy narrating voice for finale promo, who and why?

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Fina' post='79942' date='May 19 2010, 08:23 AM'][quote name='Zounder' post='79940' date='May 18 2010, 09:56 PM'][quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='79939' date='May 18 2010, 10:03 PM']Good episode. I'm wondering if Ben is pure evil or he's going for a major swerve.[/quote]



Same, I wonder what he has up his sleeve. Him shooting Widmore is interesting, because he has already reconciled with the fact that it was his own fault Alex died, yet he still held a grudge against him. I guess some hatred just doesn't die.



[/quote]



If I've learned anything from Lost, it's that Ben always has a plan. I trust in him.



Questions I have for this episode:



1. Where the fuck is Miles? He's probably my favorite alive-character left and now I don't know where he is.

2. Is Richard dead?

3. Whoooo is David's motherrrr?



Sunday please come quick.



Wait, wait, got to add one more question: Creepy narrating voice for finale promo, who and why?

[/quote]



How can you not know where Miles went ? He said it several times he's going out into the jungle and try to hide.

I'm not sure if Richard is dead, but I think not.



I have no clue why they changed the voice. It's absolutely distracting and weird sounding.

[Fina]

[quote name='Ap2000' post='79949' date='May 19 2010, 03:53 AM']How can you not know where Miles went ? He said it several times he's going out into the jungle and try to hide.

I'm not sure if Richard is dead, but I think not.



I have no clue why they changed the voice. It's absolutely distracting and weird sounding.[/quote]



Really? I know he didn't want to go with Ben and Richard, but I thought I saw him follow Widmore and Zoe into the secret tunnel. I'll have to go back and re-watch that part. And I think the consensus is that Richard probably isn't dead, otherwise they gave him the worst death in history.

[neshcom]

I don't know shit about shit about LOST, but I know this is pretty funny.

[Ap2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P9ezZjnSzc#t=1m57s



haha



EDIT:

And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di3w1yV4Ehg...player_embedded

[Geof]

I am considering watching the finale, despite never having watched a single episode of the series. I'm serious!

[Zounder]

Tonight should be pretty amazing... savor it, guys, it's our last time! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Zounder' post='80131' date='May 23 2010, 09:37 PM']Tonight should be pretty amazing... savor it, guys, it's our last time! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />[/quote]



I'm actually thinking of not watching it. Ever.

I just want to pretend they're stuck in a loop of crashing and nearly solving forever... but I probably won't be able to keep myself from watching the final hours until I die.



I'll just repost this promo for "What they died for":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mfys5-Elhw&fmt=18



[quote name='Geof' post='80113' date='May 23 2010, 05:43 AM']I am considering watching the finale, despite never having watched a single episode of the series. I'm serious![/quote]



You still have some time to download and watch the pilot at least.

Then you can decide wether or not to watch it.

[Zounder]

You can use this, too: 5 seasons of Lost in 8 minutes, 15 seconds. However, you're on your own for season 6.



Edit: Just found this too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eJ3IC0Rkw0

[al kusanagi]

Soooo... They all died in the crash and the Island was Purgatory stage one while the other reality was stage two and in the end they finally make it to Heaven?

[Zounder]

That... was beautiful.



@Al: No, I think everybody just died whenever they died... and the Alt was a place where they all "met up" afterwards(Purgatory, I guess). Hurley and Ben hint that they've been alive a lot longer than anyone else with their conversation. Time doesn't really mean anything in that world. Christian kinda hinted at it, too.

[al kusanagi]

I'm saying there were actually four "stages" to it all.



1. The real world

2. They die in a crash and end up on the island, dealing with themselves and their pasts/issues

3. The Alternate Universe where they finally come to terms with things and find happiness

4. Finally move on to wherever



Also, dog spelled backwards is "god," so Vincent was behind it all along.

[neshcom]

[attachment=0]5ioh4.png[/attachment]

[Zounder]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='80140' date='May 24 2010, 12:03 AM']I'm saying there were actually four "stages" to it all.



1. The real world

2. They die in a crash and end up on the island, dealing with themselves and their pasts/issues

3. The Alternate Universe where they finally come to terms with things and find happiness

4. Finally move on to wherever



Also, dog spelled backwards is "god," so Vincent was behind it all along.[/quote]



The writers have said repeatedly that they were not dead while they were on the island... however, the ALT is a whole different story.



I think the real theory discussion comes in the form of trying to figure out what the deal is with the ALT... was it simply purgatory? Matthew Fox said some interesting stuff on Kimmel afterward, about how he thinks everyone had to come to terms with their death before being able to move on, and that's what the ALT was for.. that's just his theory, but I kinda agreed with that sentiment. In that sense, it sort of -is- a purgatory.



I think it all comes down to that conversation Jack and Christian had. I need to rewatch it.

[eri]

Amazing. I have to process it a bit...



LA is, after all, the City of Angels.

[Tsuki]

Yeah, Jack's father said specifically that the stuff on the island actually happened. Since time had no meaning in the alternate world, they all went there when they died, whenever it is they died back in reality. And they could only move on when they were all finally together. I'm guessing some of them who had died and weren't there with them had moved on already or didn't really need the others. Or like Ben, didn't really want to move on.



It was an ending, but without really explaining everything. But then again, I didn't really watch LOST that much. I thought it was a pretty good ending without being too THEY WERE DEAD ALL ALONG or IT WAS ALL (VINCENT'S) A DREAM

[Zounder]

Seeing Vincent at the end was icing on the cake. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... isfied.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

[Gerald]

All Dead...blah blah blah..... Purgatory....blah blah blah......Heaven.



So exactly the same ending as Life On Mars/Ashes To Ashes on Friday then <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hatthe.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />.

[Ap2000]

This was absolutely beautiful.

I have no other words for it.

I was/am crying.

[Fina]

I thought the last ending was beautiful, and it was a great way to end the stories to all the characters, but I can't help feeling like I got screwed over, because I still don't really know what the island is. (Or, I guess, I know the island exists to protect the "light," but what is the light? Humanity?) Or, to put it better, I thought that, this whole time, there would be a big twist or stunning realization. In the beginning everyone was guessing, "The island is purgatory" or "They're dead" or "It's all in Hurley's mind" or ideas like that, and I just feel that the part of me that watched Lost for the mystery is not satisfied. It was written so well, and they had all these little questions that were weaved in and out the whole time, only to come together to . . . not much of anything.



Did anyone else think that, when Locke said "You don't have a son," it was going to turn out to be the Man in Black was David, and that was his real name, and he slipped into their world and Jack would have to have some sort of fight with his "son"? I was convinced that it had to be something like that. But, as it turns out, David was completely forgotten and had no real plot point other than to make us think the alt universe was real because, oh, look, Jack has a son! It can't be that they're dead. :/ I hope we find out the Man in Black's name. I don't know why they made a point of saying that yes, he did have a name, and yes, it is important, if we never find out?



I'm trying to tell myself to just focus on the characters, because it was always as character-driven show, and enjoy the ending that way. I guess I just feel like it was missing one episode before the finale, where we find out what the island is, what the light is, and then I might have seen the reason why Jack sacrificed himself and it would have been a bigger deal to me. But since I didn't know what would happen without the light, it was just kind of, "Oh. Okay." to me. :/ Hermmm.



When Vincent showed up in the very last scene and stayed with Jack, though, ahh! Jears! I jeared so much.



Best part of the finale: Kate gets her memories back by looking at Claire's vag. Yeah. So that's why she was so wishy washy the entire time. Had a boner for Claire all along.

[Zounder]

[quote name='Ap2000' post='80151' date='May 24 2010, 09:31 AM']This was absolutely beautiful.

I have no other words for it.

I was/am crying.[/quote]



I'm glad somebody else saw what I saw... I thought it was simply amazing. I cried too, during the sequence at the end when they cut between Jack on the island and in the church. Especially when I realized how it was gonna end with Jack in the bamboo field where it all started. The ending sequence could not have been more perfect.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Fina' post='80154' date='May 24 2010, 06:55 PM']I thought the last ending was beautiful, and it was a great way to end the stories to all the characters, but I can't help feeling like I got screwed over, because I still don't really know what the island is. (Or, I guess, I know the island exists to protect the "light," but what is the light? Humanity?) Or, to put it better, I thought that, this whole time, there would be a big twist or stunning realization. In the beginning everyone was guessing, "The island is purgatory" or "They're dead" or "It's all in Hurley's mind" or ideas like that, and I just feel that the part of me that watched Lost for the mystery is not satisfied. It was written so well, and they had all these little questions that were weaved in and out the whole time, only to come together to . . . not much of anything.



Did anyone else think that, when Locke said "You don't have a son," it was going to turn out to be the Man in Black was David, and that was his real name, and he slipped into their world and Jack would have to have some sort of fight with his "son"? I was convinced that it had to be something like that. But, as it turns out, David was completely forgotten and had no real plot point other than to make us think the alt universe was real because, oh, look, Jack has a son! It can't be that they're dead. :/ I hope we find out the Man in Black's name. I don't know why they made a point of saying that yes, he did have a name, and yes, it is important, if we never find out?[/quote]



I guess you could say down there was hell/HEUG electro-magnetic energy you can't even start to comprehend or something like that.

That's also why there needs to be a person that guards that place. (and wow, I think nobody saw Hurley/Ben being the protectors coming)

Smokey wasn't the thing that was threatening to destroy the world, but the energy under the cave was. The island is, figuratively speaking, the cork that holds the bad shit down there in it's place. We also see that the weather becomes bad and the island starts to fall apart as soon as the plug has been pulled from that underground-well.

However, MIB, by being thrown into the cave, was somehow "bond" to the island. His pure selfishness of wanting to get away from the island was so big, that he would have sacrificed every other being on the planet.