6th Gen are Racist!

[rob]

I don't buy into the whole "what happened in the past now affects what people can and can't do now" thing.

A trend I have noticed is that if you were born in a country that "lost" WW2 that its ok for people to take the piss out of you, there are SO many comedy programs that poke fun of the Nazi's but its ok because they lost.

Now if the Germans were to make a comedy program about the Jews.. holy shit what a fuss that would cause, I mean its the same thing but from opposing sides, personally I don't see why its ok to make fun of the Germans but not ok to make fun of the Jews.



Personally I don't give a flying crap about how anybody looks, to me people are people no matter their looks, skin colour or culture, we are all different in some way shape or form and its fun to take the piss out of each other.



I could make jokes about White Americans living in trailer parks swilling beer and playing bluegrass, or dirty mexicans swilling tequila, but it seems to me that as soon as we get to jokes about blacks, jews or koreans that it becomes a no go zone.



A guy who I think is incredibly funny is Chris Rock, but it seems to me if he was white he would be branded a racist and shunned much like Bernand Manning.



The intent is more important that the consequence IMHO, if I INTEND to drive into you and kill you then its murder, if a kid runs out into the road and I swerve to avoid the kid but crash into you then its an accident, the consequence in these two cases is the same but the intent is very different.



Its of a higher importance to determine whether someone intended to offend or not, that to me is the core of the issue.

[Tsuki]

At the risk of having to repeat myself, and inevitably have someone repeat what I'm saying again, I'm going to say this anyway:



This is one of those things you just can't understand unless you're on the other side of it. Racism is insidious and it is pervasive, and it has more causes than you seem to even care to realize. You just don't seem to understand why it's a big deal because you only seem to understand things from your own point of view, and your own personal anecdotes.



Guess what? Life is more than just what you perceive. You talk about it being okay to talk about trailer trash whites and tequila swigging mexicans, but those are offensive too. There is no magical "oh this is okay, but not this." There are always varying degrees, time/place, intention, audience, and a whole SLEW of other factors into this kind of thing. You seem to want to belabor the single point of screaming INTENT. IF THERE'S NO INTENT, IT'S FINE.



You're wrong.

[DarkRidley]

I don't buy into the whole "what happened in the past now affects what people can and can't do now" thing.

But you're rejecting all the historical forces that make us what we are today. The implications of what you say and do matter to people. I mean, what are you going to do? Knowingly say and do things that dredge up old racial constructs even though they're massively offensive to people? We don't live in an individualistic vacuum where everyone thinks like you do. It's one thing to be aware of the implications of a word like "negro" and make a tongue-in-cheek remark in certain circumstances, but it's quite another to outright ignore those implications as though they don't exist. Fact is, people will be offended, and it's not just because they've been fed some PC snake oil or something. As long racism exists as a bogus social category, it needs to be treated with some kind of care, and given proper context, and you're simplifying the issue.

A trend I have noticed is that if you were born in a country that "lost" WW2 that its ok for people to take the piss out of you, there are SO many comedy programs that poke fun of the Nazi's but its ok because they lost.

Now if the Germans were to make a comedy program about the Jews.. holy shit what a fuss that would cause, I mean its the same thing but from opposing sides, personally I don't see why its ok to make fun of the Germans but not ok to make fun of the Jews.

For the record, I don't like the fact that Germans constantly get associated with Nazism. I spent a lot of my childhood in a German-speaking country and it irritates the fuck out of me when I say one thing about Germany and two minutes later we're talking about Hitler. But that aside, there can be a difference between making fun of Nazism and making fun of Germans, and it really depends on the context, which you are not allowing for.

Personally I don't give a flying crap about how anybody looks, to me people are people no matter their looks, skin colour or culture, we are all different in some way shape or form and its fun to take the piss out of each other.

This is a very easy position to take if you're white. Ostensibly, it seems to be promoting colourblindness, equality and tolerance, but there is still so much social stratification based on race that it's not really a tenable position unless you are privileged. Once the playing field is even, then maybe this would make sense, but as things stand, you need to look at this from a different perspective, as Tsuki said.

I could make jokes about White Americans living in trailer parks swilling beer and playing bluegrass, or dirty mexicans swilling tequila, but it seems to me that as soon as we get to jokes about blacks, jews or koreans that it becomes a no go zone.

Again, you're making these assertions from a privileged position. You'd probably think differently were you subject to the same type of racism that still affects blacks in America today. Those things are rightfully offensive.

A guy who I think is incredibly funny is Chris Rock, but it seems to me if he was white he would be branded a racist and shunned much like Bernand Manning.

Bernard Manning is white, which really makes a big difference. I mean, one is the marginalised laughing at themselves and at the privileged, whilst with Manning it's the other way around. I would agree with you were both Chris Rock and Bernard Manning were coming from equal positions, but they just aren't, and that's why one gets accusations of racism and the other doesn't. It's like the difference between black pride and white pride. When you think of the former, you think of people fighting for equal rights and independence, and taking down racist power structures. When you think of the latter, you think of white nationalists hissing and spitting about brown people.

The intent is more important that the consequence IMHO, if I INTEND to drive into you and kill you then its murder, if a kid runs out into the road and I swerve to avoid the kid but crash into you then its an accident, the consequence in these two cases is the same but the intent is very different.



Its of a higher importance to determine whether someone intended to offend or not, that to me is the core of the issue.

We obviously have fundamentally different ethical systems. I am not quite a proper utilitarian, but close enough to be called that in most circumstances. I think that the moral worth of your actions is based on how much utility is derived from them and how much suffering is minimised. With your car crash dilemma, the moral worth of your choice to swerve depends on numerous factors, like my likelihood of dying vs. the kid's likelihood of dying, the suffering either of us would feel, and how much unhappiness my death would cause vs. the kid's death. Obviously it's insane to suggest that a fully-rounded judgement can be made while driving, but there is a moral responsibility either way, even if there are no legal consequences. It's like if you walk past a kid drowning and choose to ignore them, assuming that they're okay and that their parents can deal with it. That inaction makes you morally responsible for the kid's death even without any legal responsibility. With regard to the 6th gen girls, though, it's much more clear-cut; I think it's morally absurd to absolve someone of responsibility for being racist because they didn't mean to be.

[Shoujo Q]

And on that note, I'd LOVE to see you keep on stating your opinions and that's cool but this thread's gone on long enough and with nothing more coming out of this other then Reina's lack of posts with photos and a Sayumi back to normal this doesn't need to keep going on so it's now officially closed.