Koharu's Youngtown Apperance

[eri]

[quote name='TnB' timestamp='1358921645' post='142354']

But I will say this. Everyone has blown it out of proportion, both the haters and the defenders.

[/quote]



Are you kidding me?



Yes, nothing she said was outrageously rude like "male fans are stinky and gross." And maybe people were expecting a fist fight, insults hurled, tears on air - so in that sense, people blew it out of proportion.



However, given the context of the interview, she came off as highly inappropriate, rude, and unprofessional. Maybe you can rationalize this based on some cold career climbing logic, but the point of social decorum is that you don't SAY these things OUTLOUD, much less in front of your peers who still work in the field you feel you grew out of/stepped UP from! And most of all, you don't mindlessly say them on the goddamn radio. It was embarrassing to listen to.



And sure, maybe it was all scripted. The fact then, is that Koharu was scripted to seem ditzy, entitled, and rude. End of story.

[Anderei]

So, out of curiosity, can anyone explain how they got to this topic? I've been under the impression Kikka was the actual guest and Koharu was just a last minute replacement for Aika.

[eri]

Well, I'm sure TnB will publish a full and polished translation but I just caught another fucking annoying thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 9yw#t=506s



Basically, at the beginning they asked her about quitting to be a model for CanCam and she jumps in and says she always wanted to.

At this, the hosts kind of laugh and interrupt. They ask, didn't she didn't have the typical desires to become the center of the group or the leader. Then, Koharu says very very clearly that she did not want to be leader. Before she elaborates, she says "yeah but I was only in the group for, what, 3 years? 3-4 years?"

Sayumi, the leader of Morning Musume, interrupts, strained voice. "Wasn't it 5 years. From 12-17, right."

Sanma laughs it off, saying she said that so coldly. Sayumi also laughs it off, "no, I just said it normally!"



After that, they sort of tease her more and Koharu tries to say she didn't mean it that way (ie. that she was half assing Morning Musume). But...everything she says makes it worse :(

[Farrah]

Being forced into doing random fan club events every once in a while is not the same as being a professional idol. Idols have notoriously over-busy schedules and are busy doing something related to their idol promotion almost every single day of the year from morning til night. When the question comes up, idols will tell that they literally have 3-4 ACTUAL days a year for personal time or whatever. Doing a cash-grab fan club event every few months is far removed.

Oh god those unaltered vocals... <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... wheely.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wheely:' />

These songs sound awful when sung by one person, no matter who they are, they're written for a group .

LOL You are reeeeeaching so far right now. Seriously. Just admit she can't sing - it's hardly a unique trait in the idol world.



Anyway, I LOVE when idols are upfront about how fake the industry is, but holy fuck, be. fucking. tactful. Yuko, Miki, Maki - all of these girls have spoken out about not liking idol work, but they have been SO much more respectful and tactful about it. Koha has always had the disposition of a spoiled brat, and now, she has the freedom to act like one.

[freezingkiss]

For Koharu to diss Sayumi like that, goddamn, that must really hurt her. Also Sayu being so honest and shocked just makes me like her even more. You go Sayu, I swear just in the past 6 months she has jumped my rankings. I hope she's MM's leader forever. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />



I never liked Koharu so this just makes me dislike her more. What a brat.

[masa]

[quote name='eri' timestamp='1358921935' post='142356']

PS. Wish I knew what "chun-face" means.

[/quote]

Here you are.



My impression of Koharu is "Out of the mouth comes evil". I have nothing more to say about her. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... eeping.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Solarblade]

I've never liked Koharu and seeing this just lowered any kind of liking to her....I mean I get that she's entitled her opinion, but like many people said...she was rude about it all...Then getting at Sayu just made me dislike her more because Sayumi has ALWAYS wanted to a MM member even from the auditions and she's been so amazing as an idol...it's like why are you questioning this...you couldn't handle so quit your complaining and take a dose of medicine called logic.



Though I felt mostly bad for Kikka because she was the guest and she just kind of got lost in it all and I'm sure like Sayu, she's pretty disappointed of the things Koha said.

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='eri' timestamp='1358924023' post='142362']

[quote name='TnB' timestamp='1358921645' post='142354']

But I will say this. Everyone has blown it out of proportion, both the haters and the defenders.

[/quote]



Are you kidding me?



Yes, nothing she said was outrageously rude like "male fans are stinky and gross." And maybe people were expecting a fist fight, insults hurled, tears on air - so in that sense, people blew it out of proportion.



However, given the context of the interview, she came off as highly inappropriate, rude, and unprofessional. Maybe you can rationalize this based on some cold career climbing logic, but the point of social decorum is that you don't SAY these things OUTLOUD, much less in front of your peers who still work in the field you feel you grew out of/stepped UP from! And most of all, you don't mindlessly say them on the goddamn radio. It was embarrassing to listen to.



And sure, maybe it was all scripted. The fact then, is that Koharu was scripted to seem ditzy, entitled, and rude. End of story.

[/quote]



I agree that she came off ungrateful and unprofessional. I said in my post that I believe that she could have expressed herself in a much better way. However, I don't think any of this is new for Koharu. I also said that she came off the way she always has to me - ditzy, entitled, etc. Honestly, I think her biggest problem is immaturity and ignorance. It was clear from the other talk portions that she's always been that way - the things she asked Sayu to do as her mentor weren't particularly respectful of a senior, for example. Saying modeling is easy and doesn't need practice. I think I was pretty clear that I'm not defending her.



I just think the reaction in the fan community is way over the top. People saying her career is over or that she's a horrible person for attacking Sayumi (when Sanma was the one to initiate that). Then the people defending her championing her as an icon of free expression and women standing up for themselves. I think both perspectives imagine intentions and tone that just weren't in the show.



Momoko is also known for being obnoxious and saying too much. I think Koharu tends to be the same character, she just doesn't have Momoko's polish. Momoko knows how to "say too much" in a calculated way while Koharu just word vomits.





[quote name='Anderei' timestamp='1358924268' post='142364']

So, out of curiosity, can anyone explain how they got to this topic? I've been under the impression Kikka was the actual guest and Koharu was just a last minute replacement for Aika.

[/quote]



I don't listen to the show regularly, but I'm not under the impression they do a specialized focus on the guest. It seems more like they just talk for a while and the guest participates. Kikka has been on the show quite a few times in the past, almost like a semi-regular. As for the topic, Sanma directly asked Koharu the questions. He directly questions Kikka and Sayumi a few times too.

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='AurA' timestamp='1358922660' post='142357']

Well. This has been a fairly interesting thread for me. I feel like I'm just now experiencing a darker perhaps more "real" side to the idol culture. I have not been able to really analyze the content I have been enjoying.



I have yet to meet anyone in person who knows anything about J-pop (outside of the few concerts I went to, but I didn't meet or talk to anyone either), and up until now I have not participated in any online communities.



As for this Koharu controversy, I just find it fascinating more than anything. She was only a child when she joined MM, I doubt she had such specific ambitions at that time. To use fame generated by her idol career to boost her name in the entertainment industry. But I guess that's why they accept girls at such young ages. To make the idol image more "real".

[/quote]

I've been researching this exact subject a lot lately and seeking out more realistic behavior from idols. Following so much absurd fakeness started to get to me after all these years and now that guidelines for being an idol and what is allowed as an idol are getting more blurred nowadays, its made for a lot more interesting happenings within the industry and some much more interesting and occasionally more real idols to debut. There were even some little glimpses of this behavior back in the 80s and 90s with some rare artists (Moritaka even criticized being an idol and made fun of it back in her day, while still embracing it) but it has become more common lately, and I'm loving the industry for it. The idol mold is being broken more often and the fans are more accepting of it in general. H!P fans are generally stuck stuck in the same little bubble of wholly-immersive fantasy, but smaller, more obscure groups who break the mold are garnering some impressive following lately.



[quote name='showraniy' timestamp='1358923898' post='142361']

Koharu reminds me of myself in that she'll be candid about anything purely because she's too ditzy to tell otherwise, so I find it more endearing just for that. To idols, who build their worlds on being tactful, all this stuff may be scandalous to admit openly, but I'm sure she's speaking for a lot of girls who just wouldn't say so themselves. No offense to Sayumi, but I would hope the girls would have more ambition than just that group at some point. Definitely not at twelve, but at some point they have to graduate, and I'm missing something if 22-24 is the new retirement age.

[/quote]

Well-said, all of this. And 22-24 is very standard age for girls moving on to other things nowadays. Not necessarily just retiring from show business, but at least leaving these big groups to be a soloist or something. This doesn't really apply to H!P though because Tsunku just drags everything out WAY longer than they should. If the girls are smart enough, they'll quit on their own, but they usually don't know any better because they start so young. At least producers like Aki-P change things up and force girls to graduate often to keep things more fresh, even if it pisses a lot of people off.



[quote name='freezingkiss' timestamp='1358932535' post='142371']

I hope she's MM's leader forever. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />

[/quote]

That would indeed be nice to have MM go with her when she leaves so they can stop embarrassing themselves. Especially since she'll probably leave by end of 2014 or so unless they really want to keep beating a dead horse <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nceman.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' />

[JPope]

Nothing in TnB's or eri's translations cause me to change my mind about this. Koharu isn't merely a talentless hack, she's a rude, narcissistic, and ungrateful talentless hack. And I would terminate her contract if she were working for my company. Piling on Sayumi like that was not only rude, it was just bad form, and it revealed more about what kind of person she is (horrible) than anything else we've heard from this appearance.

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358959318' post='142399']

[quote name='showraniy' timestamp='1358923898' post='142361']

No offense to Sayumi, but I would hope the girls would have more ambition than just that group at some point. Definitely not at twelve, but at some point they have to graduate, and I'm missing something if 22-24 is the new retirement age.

[/quote]

Well-said, all of this. And 22-24 is very standard age for girls moving on to other things nowadays. Not necessarily just retiring from show business, but at least leaving these big groups to be a soloist or something.

[/quote]



I don't think Sayumi's comments (or the comments of anyone in this thread, for that matter) are meant to imply that MM is the be all-end all, and no one should ever have future ambitions. Just that when she joined she wasn't calculating "I want to be a celebrity by any means necessary, MM will be my in!" She's talked about things she'd like to do in the future.

MM has always been an idol nursery, so to speak. Tsunku's big theme has been showcasing growth and improvement, getting the girls to a point where they're polished and at the height of their potential and then setting them off to make it on their own (with varying degrees of success). I'd say Koharu was a pretty big success, given that she came in with zero singing talent and wasn't all that cute. She grew up to be very pretty and landed a great regular modeling gig. It's a really good story! I was at a point where I thought wow Koharu has really changed, she's all grown up now! If she'd just added something like "I'm really grateful to Tsunku-san for choosing me and giving me that opportunity" or "I gained a lot of experience in MM, but when I was 17 I was ready to move on." But... she didn't. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />





I'm totally down with idols being different and breaking the mold. I'm down with idols having their own opinions and feeling comfortable voicing them. I just also value tact - from all people, not just idols or other celebrities. I wouldn't ever be like "Oh man that girl just talked shit about her boss in front of the whole company, you go girl!" I also have never been a big fan of the "I want to be famous no matter what!" mentality. There's a fine line between being having ambition and confidence and being self-serving and arrogant. Koharu articulated herself as the later. Whether that's truly how she is or just her inability to speak well, who knows.

[Madara]

TnB's posts seem to offer the most measured and reasoned responses to all this and reflect my take on all this to some degree. Koharu's remarks don't surprise me at all. Maybe it's surprising that she actually made them on TV, but she was always something of a loose cannon or wild card in the pack, so it's consistent with her past behavior.



Having said all that, I loved Koharu when she was in MM and I love her now. I got an iPod recently to have music to listen to at the gym and her albums pump me up like few others as I hit that treadmill. I watched an Uta Doki Pop Classics DVD a couple of days ago and she came on as the "Weekly DJ" for a few numbers and it was so delightful to hear her fast-paced high-pitched squealing chatter. She brought a degree of lunacy to MM when the group really needed it and I miss her terribly now.

[Melon]

[quote name='JPope' timestamp='1358960988' post='142401']

Nothing in TnB's or eri's translations cause me to change my mind about this. Koharu isn't merely a talentless hack, she's a rude, narcissistic, and ungrateful talentless hack. And I would terminate her contract if she were working for my company. Piling on Sayumi like that was not only rude, it was just bad form, and it revealed more about what kind of person she is (horrible) than anything else we've heard from this appearance.

[/quote]

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='Madara' timestamp='1358963084' post='142408']

TnB's posts seem to offer the most measured and reasoned responses to all this and reflect my take on all this to some degree. Koharu's remarks don't surprise me at all. Maybe it's surprising that she actually made them on TV, but she was always something of a loose cannon or wild card in the pack, so it's consistent with her past behavior.



Having said all that, I loved Koharu when she was in MM and I love her now. I got an iPod recently to have music to listen to at the gym and her albums pump me up like few others as I hit that treadmill. I watched an Uta Doki Pop Classics DVD a couple of days ago and she came on as the "Weekly DJ" for a few numbers and it was so delightful to hear her fast-paced high-pitched squealing chatter. She brought a degree of lunacy to MM when the group really needed it and I miss her terribly now.

[/quote]



It was actually on radio. I only make this correction because I think it's lead to some of the questions about tone, mood of the show, and people talking over each other. All of it would be more obvious if we had a video where we could see expressions and such. I also think it's easier to make out what people are saying when they talk over each other on TV because you can see their lips.



As for lunacy, I recommend Masaki to you from current MM. She may be up your ally!

[Anderei]

I just recommend 10th gen as a whole because they are the bees knees, man.

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='Madara' timestamp='1358963084' post='142408']

TnB's posts seem to offer the most measured and reasoned responses to all this and reflect my take on all this to some degree. Koharu's remarks don't surprise me at all. Maybe it's surprising that she actually made them on TV, but she was always something of a loose cannon or wild card in the pack, so it's consistent with her past behavior.



Having said all that, I loved Koharu when she was in MM and I love her now. I got an iPod recently to have music to listen to at the gym and her albums pump me up like few others as I hit that treadmill. I watched an Uta Doki Pop Classics DVD a couple of days ago and she came on as the "Weekly DJ" for a few numbers and it was so delightful to hear her fast-paced high-pitched squealing chatter. She brought a degree of lunacy to MM when the group really needed it and I miss her terribly now.

[/quote]

[JPope]

[quote name='TnB' timestamp='1358961864' post='142403']

I'm totally down with idols being different and breaking the mold. I'm down with idols having their own opinions and feeling comfortable voicing them. I just also value tact - from all people, not just idols or other celebrities. I wouldn't ever be like "Oh man that girl just talked shit about her boss in front of the whole company, you go girl!" I also have never been a big fan of the "I want to be famous no matter what!" mentality. There's a fine line between being having ambition and confidence and being self-serving and arrogant. Koharu articulated herself as the later. Whether that's truly how she is or just her inability to speak well, who knows.

[/quote]

[Melon]

NO GUYS WE GOTTA GO DEEPER.

It was actually on radio. I only make this correction because I think it's lead to some of the questions about tone, mood of the show, and people talking over each other. All of it would be more obvious if we had a video where we could see expressions and such. I also think it's easier to make out what people are saying when they talk over each other on TV because you can see their lips.



As for lunacy, I recommend Masaki to you from current MM. She may be up your ally!

I just recommend 10th gen as a whole because they are the bees knees, man.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1358873150' post='142282']



shitstain

[/quote]

[aine]

[quote name='JPope' timestamp='1358960988' post='142401']

Nothing in TnB's or eri's translations cause me to change my mind about this. Koharu isn't merely a talentless hack, she's a rude, narcissistic, and ungrateful talentless hack. And I would terminate her contract if she were working for my company. Piling on Sayumi like that was not only rude, it was just bad form, and it revealed more about what kind of person she is (horrible) than anything else we've heard from this appearance.

[/quote]

Well put, and I stand by what I said earlier in the thread.





[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358867642' post='142272']

[quote name='aine' timestamp='1358849675' post='142267']

Newtype, why do you even bother keeping up with H!P any more at all, you seem to despise every single thing about it. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[/quote]

Don't start this crap again. I've been following H!P for 12 years now, and I still highly enjoy some of the stuff they put out, and you obviously don't read all my posts if you think I don't. Even if an idol group only puts out 1 song a year that I like and the rest is crap, I don't feel that the little effort spent keeping up with their releases was a waste. Yes, the management is piss-poor and the production value of the entire project has mostly gone down the shitter in recent years, but they are still able to succeed sometimes.

[/quote]

It's not about your opinion, which I disagree with but don't need to give a damn about, it's about your attitude which is really pissing me off. And in the less than 2 days since that post you've upped your game tenfold here.



You're not just critical or unhappy with H!P, you seem to be absolutely full of vile glee and happiness that some shit is going down to stain H!P's name. You jumped on this thread like this was the best news ever and your posts went far beyond defending Koharu's actions. You're going on writing essays glorifying her attitude and full of wishful thinking that more shit like that happens for your little personal enjoyment. And really, your posts in this thread had long ago crossed the line between opinions and full-on trolling.



It's both amusing and disgusting to watch you keep adding fuel to your fire, but your negativity can be tolerated only for this long and only when taken this far, so consider this your final warning.

[Cyrene]

I think the things being said in this thread are a thousand times worse than what Koharu said, to be quite honest. Koharu haters were vile before this, but now they're even harsher than before. I mean, it's legitimately a good reason to be angry, but still. Koharu <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cryalot:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cryalot:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cryalot:' />.





I feel I have to be mean so.....FUCK YEAH AIKA IS GONE AND SICK WOO. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... stling.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' /> (Am I serious?! No.)

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Cyrene' timestamp='1358971154' post='142424']

I think the things being said in this thread are a thousand times worse than what Koharu said, to be quite honest. Koharu haters were vile before this, but now they're even harsher than before. I mean, it's legitimately a good reason to be angry, but still. Koharu <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cryalot:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cryalot:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cryalot:' />.





I feel I have to be mean so.....FUCK YEAH AIKA IS GONE AND SICK WOO. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... stling.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' /> (Am I serious?! No.)

[/quote]



Bashing Aika is perfectly fine imho. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... lesson.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lesson:' />

[Anderei]

I like Aika. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cryalot:' />

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1358968701' post='142420']

[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1358873150' post='142282']



shitstain

[/quote]

[/quote]





[quote name='aine' timestamp='1358970215' post='142422']

It's both amusing and disgusting to watch you keep adding fuel to your fire, but your negativity can be tolerated only for this long and only when taken this far, so consider this your final warning.

[/quote]





[quote name='Cyrene' timestamp='1358971154' post='142424']

I think the things being said in this thread are a thousand times worse than what Koharu said, to be quite honest. Koharu haters were vile before this, but now they're even harsher than before.

[/quote]

[Melon]

[yuzuriha]

DON'T INSULT THOSE HORSES PETIT

[Ap2000]

You did NOT help this thread by posting horses. It just reminds me of MLP and that's worse than anything...



[spoiler2]Of course that was just a joke about "horseface", right ?[/spoiler2]



To keep in tune with the thread, here is a cat eating a bunny !



[spoiler2]

1354898855359.gif

[/spoiler2]

[eri]

What about a pony in a sweater???

[Anderei]

You guys stop spamming the thread with cats and bunnies, this is about horses.

[AurA]

What is with all these animals? It makes no sen...aww he's eating the Bunny's ears XD