Staff changes

[strawberryjam]

A run down of some changes:



- Peach is no longer an admin. Lets all be thankful for her time as an admin! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/clap.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



- Even with sadude's earlier departure, I felt overworked so I have been looking out for new admins. I've picked aine as a new administrator. I hope others can agree he would make a good admin despite my obvious bias towards him. And I know aine really cares about the board and has the motivation for it. Please welcome aine everyone! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /weeeh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':weeeh:' />



- I'll be look for other new admins as well because we could still use some help. I'll be looking out to see people's participation to see who might fit the position. Currently, I have one candidate lined up already. But I'll welcome more! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /dance.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dance:' />



- New staff members: Ap2000 and Zaeleus. They've been really helpful to me in chat. They have been doing general help in transitioning to the new board. They'll have staff member banners at the new board. Everyone please welcome them and thank them for their work! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/cool.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



- Tsuki has overtaken an extra job for me -- validating members. I feel bad neglecting it, but at least there's lots of new noobs now. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... deways.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Everyone thank him for the extra noobs! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nceman.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



- If anyone would like to become a staff member, I'd be grateful. Just hit me up and chat and we can talk about it.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

Kind of off topic but I tried to go to the IRC chat, but the web client stalls at connecting to server. When I try to connect to it from an IRC client it boots me, telling me I've been banned because I'm "infected with a bot". What gives? D: I shouldn't have any viruses.

[Geof]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='67526' date='Aug 18 2009, 02:47 PM']Kind of off topic but I tried to go to the IRC chat, but the web client stalls at connecting to server. When I try to connect to it from an IRC client it boots me, telling me I've been banned because I'm "infected with a bot". What gives? D: I shouldn't have any viruses.[/quote]

That's a typo. It should've read "infected butt."





BTW, if you have need of a staff member to prod others & goof on them with nonsense in a (more often than not) good-natured way, I'd like to apply.

[strawberryjam]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='67526' date='Aug 18 2009, 10:47 PM']Kind of off topic but I tried to go to the IRC chat, but the web client stalls at connecting to server. When I try to connect to it from an IRC client it boots me, telling me I've been banned because I'm "infected with a bot". What gives? D: I shouldn't have any viruses.[/quote]

I... uh.. no idea? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... pyeyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

Sorry, guess I'll have to recommend an irc client for you. I am hoping someone more computer savvy will come speak up for me though.

I can also offer chatzilla which is a Firefox plugin. Not sure about other browsers, but I think Opera, it was, that had a built in IRC client.





[quote name='Geof' post='67544' date='Aug 19 2009, 05:20 AM']BTW, if you have need of a staff member to prod others & goof on them with nonsense in a (more often than not) good-natured way, I'd like to apply.[/quote]

Not sure how serious you were about this. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hahaha.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

But surely, we could use more people with WOO YAY character. I'm pretty boring, I'll admit, compared to Al or DS especially. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... smooch.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':weeeh:' />

[tsukinobyouin]

To be honest, it's kind of weird that this all went on behind the scenes. When we had the last admin changeover, the whole forum was allowed to give input. When there were staff members added, there was a thread for recruitment so at least people had a chance to volunteer / know what criteria was going into selecting mods. I'm not saying I have issues with your choices, but why the secret scouting? There wasn't even a post in the mod area.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

Yeeah, I'm a little confused here too. I know I haven't been active in a long time, but this all seems kind of sudden. :/ Why did Peach step down, and what are Ap and Zaeleus going to do under staff positions? Are we going to get other admins?

[strawberryjam]

re: Peach -- short answer: To not drown the board in unnecessary drama. There was disputes behind the scenes. I don't really want to talk about it unless Peach does. Because I feel I will be too much, "YES MY SIDE OF THE STORY. IT'S SO TRUE!" if she doesn't post anything about this. I did ask her to post about this, but I don't think she wanted to.



I know me picking aine right away seems fishy and like I'm mad with power... but I did consider him before. Peach and sadude seemed OK with it. I did ask a few people this time as well, but I didn't post it asking everyone if it was OK... to avoid drama. I know I work well with aine and I trust him with this job. I don't know if this was right. But I do think my first point above is right at least.



As for new admins, I, of course, DO want some. You will be surprised how much admin's have to do. Right now, I'm a little uncomfortable about anymore unnecessary drama. If you guys would like to pick someone right away, I'd be happy with it. I'd have to give my final say if it's OK though. Because in the end, it's someone I have to work with.



As for staff members, it was an impromptu thing. I was randomly talking about Invision 3 in the chat and was explaining that I was confused. Zaeleus and Ap2000 just decided to help. This was the same for Tsuki. Em-El asked me who was validating members and how often it happened. And I said something like, "yeah... I need help with it. I am always behind in it." Tsuki signed up for it just like that. If you guys want me to post about these positions publicly, that's fine too. It's just kind of.. a job that just doesn't exactly materialize in my mind.



Ap and Zae just give me some technical assistance. I'm not well versed with php. I just kind of have an idea... and Invision 3 was re-written. I'm not familiar with everything about it. So they've been helping with that.



Sorry about all of this. I really wasn't sure how to handle it, but I tried...

[Special Needs Tricycle]

Why would it start drama? Last I heard she was just busy with school/work stuff IRL...?



I don't want to cause trouble or start shit, especially since I just got back (I was reading though!), but it's all kind of confusing. Could you give us like, a status report on the current state of the BBS? Who's paying for it? Who owns it now that Peach and sadude are gone? What are the plans for the future?



I don't really mind the sudden adding of the new staff, especially if it was something sudden that came out of IRC, but do they have like, admin access for their jobs? I'm not really sure, but back when I admined another forum, you had to have admin access to do stuff like that. I'm sure all 3 of them are capable, but I don't think any of us know them very well. :x Just kind of worrying.



I also know aine is trustworthy and capable. It's not really fishy, and definitely not power mad at all, but I don't really get the reason behind up and making him an admin so suddenly, especially since we were down to only one admin to make decisions. I don't object to him being admin, but I think you could have asked the community first.

[aine]

Hello, world.



My first post as an admin accidentally happened to be a concert review. But this brief statement should be just as well being the 3rd 4th one.



I can see where this thread is trying to go, so let me point out a few things. Please bear with me. tl;dr ahoy.



• The BBS continues to be my home on the Internets since approximately late 2002 and I love it wholeheartedly.



• Having seen the BBS go through a number of ups and downs during that time, I can say it currently is at its all-time low. While the stagnation sure has to do with the general drop of quality of the H!P output, it is vastly disproportional to it. And H!P seems to be recovering recently, too.



• We've lost a lot of good members over time, due to their loss of interest, real life commitments, but also to sad and unnecessary things like drama, serious business, Koharu Kusumi, or the rift between the BBS and that other forum for that other idol group.



• One of the biggest losses was that of DarkScorpion in whom the BBS has lost not only a technically competent admin, but also someone with enough charisma to keep the community alive and lively, instead of lazily sloshing about like half-dead fish in the mud.



• The team that took over - Shelly, Peach, and sadude - has had a lot of ambition and plans, but it slowly burned out and came to a standstill. Both sadude and Peach essentially got preoccupied with various personal matters, and Shelly could only handle this much while dealing with her real life and studies (you know, priorities, which I have often witnessed being turned all upside down).



For a good while I had a chance to observe the proceedings from behind the scenes and it continued to look progressively worse. For a good while I also felt compelled to step up to help, but was being held back by the possible controversy due to my close relation with Shelly. The recent events, however, outweighed that by a large margin, and it was time for me to say "I WILL", instead of "I would", "I could", "maybe", "but". Screw the controversies, the BBS needs some love and action.



So here I am. For those of you suspecting any nepotism at work here - Shelly and I are very wary of that and will do our hardest to prove you wrong. Which will only benefit the BBS. For those of you doubting my capability as an admin - Shelly will make sure I do my hardest to prove you wrong too. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /ph34r.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> Besides that, we're a good and well tuned team that keeps in touch almost 24/7, which eliminates any issues with the lack of or mis-communication.



As for the recent events, as Shelly has stated it would be too much of "our side of the story" to describe it. It did however had a lot to do with constructive communication, or lack of thereof. To make it clear, nobody is blaming anyone for not being able to continue their admin duties due to their personal situation. I know this may spark curiosity, but the energy wasted debating that could be much better spend on doing something fun with the BBS. But if anyone has any specific doubts or questions, do take them up with me or Shelly.

[Joel]

I fully support strawberryjam and aine! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

[strawberryjam]

Sorry, I feel really bad not completely being honest. But I can't answer a lot of your questions without telling everything. But I'll try my best.

Why would it start drama? Last I heard she was just busy with school/work stuff IRL...?

I don't think you understand unless you knew the situation. This requires a leap of faith, sorry. But it would essentially lead to me talking behind Peach's back and I wouldn't be comfortable about that.

I don't want to cause trouble or start shit, especially since I just got back (I was reading though!), but it's all kind of confusing. Could you give us like, a status report on the current state of the BBS? Who's paying for it? Who owns it now that Peach and sadude are gone? What are the plans for the future?

Aine and I own the BBS. Aine pays for it. Actually, aine's first job was to handle financial matters. I told him to either find someone knew to pay or get donations or pay. He decided to pay himself.

As for the future, everyone's basically seen my plans. Just to make it more lively and help the community grow.

I don't really mind the sudden adding of the new staff, especially if it was something sudden that came out of IRC, but do they have like, admin access for their jobs? I'm not really sure, but back when I admined another forum, you had to have admin access to do stuff like that. I'm sure all 3 of them are capable, but I don't think any of us know them very well. :x Just kind of worrying.

They have partial access to admin cp. All they can access is the skins part. And Tsuki can just access the validating members part.

I also know aine is trustworthy and capable. It's not really fishy, and definitely not power mad at all, but I don't really get the reason behind up and making him an admin so suddenly, especially since we were down to only one admin to make decisions. I don't object to him being admin, but I think you could have asked the community first.

I can only give you half an answer to this question.

There was talk about me stepping down for awhile earlier this year. During the school year, I wasn't able to do that much. But I would stay for the summer at least because I knew I wanted to give as much as I could then. I was the only admin left so I needed someone. I'm still unsure now what's gonna happen now. But I know I can at least trust aine because he knows what needs to be done. I would feel uneasy about giving the bbs entirely to someone else to care for. Even if it was someone I could trust, I would feel uneasy about giving them advice.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

I don't think you understand unless you knew the situation. This requires a leap of faith, sorry. But it would essentially lead to me talking behind Peach's back and I wouldn't be comfortable about that.

That's fine I guess. It's just a little worrying seeing a one sentence announcement for something as major as an admin stepping down without any explanation at all. It's your prerogative if you don't want to say, though.

Aine and I own the BBS. Aine pays for it. Actually, aine's first job was to handle financial matters. I told him to either find someone knew to pay or get donations or pay. He decided to pay himself.

As for the future, everyone's basically seen my plans. Just to make it more lively and help the community grow.

I guess that works. But as for the plans... I don't know if I've overlooked a topic or something, but the only plans I've really seen and are being worked on are reorganizing the forum and bringing back BBS Idol. Maybe we could have a thread for brainstorming?

They have partial access to admin cp. All they can access is the skins part. And Tsuki can just access the validating members part.

Ahh, okay.

I can only give you half an answer to this question.

There was talk about me stepping down for awhile earlier this year. During the school year, I wasn't able to do that much. But I would stay for the summer at least because I knew I wanted to give as much as I could then. I was the only admin left so I needed someone. I'm still unsure now what's gonna happen now. But I know I can at least trust aine because he knows what needs to be done. I would feel uneasy about giving the bbs entirely to someone else to care for. Even if it was someone I could trust, I would feel uneasy about giving them advice.

See, I don't really see the point of stepping down though. :/ We had admins in the past that were busy with real life and only popped in once in a while to do small things while there were other active admins and it worked just fine. Having a few inactive admins doesn't really hurt the forum, especially if those admins are going to come back at a later time once they're less busy or whatever. It's not like the admins are getting any benefits from having those powers.



I really hope you, aine, nor anyone else is taking this as me just being an asshole or picking on you, but after reading TnB's post, I think that maybe things like this should be discussed amongst the community. I understand your weariness of letting other people in on decisions like this, but I've always seen this place as a diamond in the rough with smart people as opposed to most other people who like H!P and J-Pop. It's not like places like H!O and JPM where the admins are more like special education teachers instead of members in the community who happen to have more power than most of them. I think all of us are capable of making good group decisions.



That said, I look forward to how the two of you handle the current situation.

[Tsuki]

I think strawberry's doing her best, and I think aine's a good choice for being a second admin. I don't think it's fair to spread out dirty laundry if the details aren't really anybody's business but the people involved, and if they don't want to talk about it, then that's that. I think we really should focus more on getting more traffic and posting to this board.



And I'm doing a fine good job of validating members, thank you. You can all rest assured I will be bringing fresh new batches of delicious noobs every day. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

[aine]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='67605' date='Aug 19 2009, 11:05 PM']See, I don't really see the point of stepping down though. :/ We had admins in the past that were busy with real life and only popped in once in a while to do small things while there were other active admins and it worked just fine. Having a few inactive admins doesn't really hurt the forum, especially if those admins are going to come back at a later time once they're less busy or whatever. It's not like the admins are getting any benefits from having those powers.[/quote]

No offence Trike but you're making it difficult by insisting on dragging the dirts out and letting the bad air in. Which is something we would really like to leave behind us. And Peach is passively making it difficult by not telling her side of the story as well as totally misinterpreting what I've said earlier. Which may actually be for the best, because the sooner the whole ordeal is forgotten, the better.



You're wrong in two ways though. First, the BBS did have admins go on a hiatus, but as far as I know that was always (or almost always) announced and the rest of the team knew what and when to expect of the person taking a break for any reason. Also, that was back in the day when the admin and mod team had about 10 people to fill in the gap. None of that was true in the current case.



And second, more important, in the current case it wasn't just about being inactive. It was about barely communicating at all with the other admins, flipping out when asked for answers on pressing matters, calling names, and eventually throwing insults.



One thing that probably wasn't stressed enough yet - IT'S NOTHING PERSONAL. It's "professional", about cooperation that wasn't going well, and lately was going plain bad and destructive. We do appreciate Peach is having a hard time and hope her matters get resolved soon. She was a valuable member of the community before and we hope she will continue to be once it all settles down for her.



[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='67605' date='Aug 19 2009, 11:05 PM']I really hope you, aine, nor anyone else is taking this as me just being an asshole or picking on you, but after reading TnB's post, I think that maybe things like this should be discussed amongst the community. I understand your weariness of letting other people in on decisions like this, but I've always seen this place as a diamond in the rough with smart people as opposed to most other people who like H!P and J-Pop. It's not like places like H!O and JPM where the admins are more like special education teachers instead of members in the community who happen to have more power than most of them. I think all of us are capable of making good group decisions.[/quote]

I see where your sentiment is coming from, but that's one authoritative decision you and everyone will have to get over with. And the decision was to ACT, rather than debate, split hairs, and let the whole thing get stuck in the development hell forever. While the BBS itself was ultimately falling apart around. And trust me, this whole matter was already going on for at least a good couple of weeks. Watching if from the side I did in whole seriousness expect the BBS to sing and disappear if some strong measures weren't taken quick. That's why I'm here now, also to tell you that any community input or initiative are the most welcome and encouraged. Like the current MM-BBS Idol edition.



Case closed. Any further dragging out of the dirts will be serious pushing of our patience. We're having a fresh start here, let's not stink it up on day 1, k? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... kodama.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />



[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='67605' date='Aug 19 2009, 11:05 PM']That said, I look forward to how the two of you handle the current situation.[/quote]

Thanks, we'll do our best. The situation we've left behind, and before us is a whole damn lot of possibilities.



Also, thanks Joel and Tsuki!

[Special Needs Tricycle]

I really didn't have intentions to pressure you or strawberryjam into putting out dirty laundry. I was genuinely curious at first and didn't have much of an idea what happened. My second comment was directly aimed at her thinking of stepping down, not the current situation.



Other than that, point taken, I guess. Good luck.

[Kago]

No offence Trike but you're making it difficult by insisting on dragging the dirts out and letting the bad air in.

All Trike is doing is maturely discussing what happened rather than rolling over and accepting all of the changes. Nothing was really explained, and before anyone knew what had happened the entire mod team had changed again without any discussion whatsoever. If having an open forum involving the community is "letting the bad air in", then these new "changes" are not changes at all and may not be for the best.

First, the BBS did have admins go on a hiatus

Nekobus and Al were not around for a very long period of time and would come in to post in the spam thread, leaving DS and eventually sadude as almost the sole moderators for at least 2 years.

I see where your sentiment is coming from, but that's one authoritative decision you and everyone will have to get over with. And the decision was to ACT, rather than debate, split hairs, and let the whole thing get stuck in the development hell forever.

Opening a thread to discuss possible moderator replacements isn't "development hell".. While I appreciate you coming into the thread to try and clear up some of the questions we have, telling us to "just get over it" is frustrating, immature, and comes across as though this is no longer a community but a dictatorship under Shelly and whomever she chooses to elect to power.

And second, more important, in the current case it wasn't just about being inactive. It was about barely communicating at all with the other admins, flipping out when asked for answers on pressing matters, calling names, and eventually throwing insults.

This is disappointing to read, and not for the contents, but for the fact that you posted something of this nature. Peach chose not to come into this thread or any thread about this and make a statement of what happened, so choosing to defame her character based on your biased interpretation of events is unfair and hurtful.

Watching if from the side I did in whole seriousness expect the BBS to sing and disappear if some strong measures weren't taken quick.

I'm trying to think of a way to say this without coming across as too blunt. But this is not something a moderator should say in public. Frankly, it's fearmongering. If you are telling this to us as a reason why we should support the actions taken, it's feeble. If the BBS was in such a dire state, something should have been done in those few weeks as a community. Shelly should have made a post about the current state of the BBS or the current moderator state, even if it was in a members-only section. None of this was done, and instead we have after-the-fact reports about how the BBS was going to fold up and we were going to lose everything. It's irresponsible to lay it out like that for us now, least of all as seemingly one of the reasons to support the new system.

We do appreciate Peach is having a hard time and hope her matters get resolved soon. She was a valuable member of the community before and we hope she will continue to be once it all settles down for her.

I don't really know what to say in response to this. Good diplomacy, though.

[Tsuki]

See, but that's exactly why none of this "dirty laundry" was wanted to be aired. If there was any mention of it, like aine happened to do, there would immediately be some kind of backlash that is ultimately harmful to the community. Instead, someone was pressing for more information and after repeated attempts to dissuade the need for more information, some information was given and instantly there was someone up in arms.



So what exactly were the previous posts that there was no want to air publicly any of this? Just something to save face so that when it was asked about a third time, THAT was the time to start flinging mud? I don't get it.

[tsukinobyouin]

Well I had written all this stuff up but then Pi said most of it for me sooooo I'll just cut it down to:





The issue is more that a new admin was chosen without ANY input whatsoever from the rest of the BBS. Shelly herself would not be an admin were it not for people here saying "yes, we're cool with Shelly, sign her up" in the last transition. Just because you were the only admin left, Shelly, that does not make this your BBS. This is the community's BBS, and it always has been. If you think your boyfriend would make a great admin, make a thread saying "The bbs is in trouble, we need another admin. I know it sounds bad, but how 'bout Aine? He's great because ____ and I think it could work despite our relationship." If the board is going to die because no one cares about it anymore, then it's just going to happen. A week or even a few days of discussion about bringing on a new admin isn't going to make a huge difference.



Nothing can really be done at this point because aine has already been chosen and taken his place as admin - but since another one is needed, why not be more open about how that one is chosen? We don't have to have to count ballots and end up choosing someone neither of you two are comfortable working with, but a general "are people mostly cool with this person?" thread would be nice.

[Tsuki]

[quote name='TnB' post='67619' date='Aug 19 2009, 08:15 PM']Nothing can really be done at this point because aine has already been chosen and taken his place as admin - but since another one is needed, why not be more open about how that one is chosen? We don't have to have to count ballots and end up choosing someone neither of you two are comfortable working with, but a general "are people mostly cool with this person?" thread would be nice.[/quote]



The first part is just too accusative of people who felt that some immediate action for what I personally think was needed for the best of the community. There is no conspiratorial "takeover" going on. But I like this second part that I've quoted, I also agree there needs to be more admins and I'd be glad to see an additional admin who had the same motivation the original team had when the board revived.

[Kago]

[quote name='Tsuki' post='67620' date='Aug 19 2009, 08:23 PM']The first part is just too accusative of people who felt that some immediate action for what I personally think was needed for the best of the community. There is no conspiratorial "takeover" going on.[/quote]



Who are these "some people"? The group who hangs out in IRC? You didn't include one of the admins in on this decision, nor any of the regulars or the community, so all I can surmise are that it was a group of 2-3 people who decided on this and voted in one of their own.. yet it is being billed as not a "takeover". I agree that it isn't, and no one said anything to that effect, but what it is right now comes across as a small group of people making decisions on behalf of an entire community who is being left in the dark.

[Tsuki]

I was speaking about the two current admins who have posted in this thread, and the past admins as well. If all these admins were not qualified to make decisions for the board, then why are they administrators? The community is being informed now, with one admin addition and a request for helping to pick a new one.



The problem I see with losing two admins so close together is that your pool of qualified people grows that much smaller, and with what is appearing to be a pretty desperate time for the BBS, some positive action was needed.

[aine]

Pi:



• Admins' role is to keep the board running and in the best shape possible. Sometimes this involves making authoritative decisions which they are fully entitled to. I'm sorry if you're not happy with the decision that was made.

• Decisions and changes were made and they will not be unmade. You're welcome to think of it as "the damage is done". I prefer to think "the BBS is finally back on track" and use my time and energy for something constructive instead of this endless splitting of hairs.

• Trike was pressing for details regarding Peach, so I provided the in them most general and I believe objective manner. I thought that was the lesser evil than not answering the repeated question at all, but now I have changed my mind. Lesson learned.

• All this time, for at least few days now, Peach had the option to write her own post with explanation. She chose not to, being fully aware that questions about the story behind may be asked and will deserve an answer.

• There may have been other ways to solve what was going on behind the scenes lately, perhaps better ways. But it was solved in the way it was solved, and what matters now is what we will do from now on.



What we're asking all of you for is:



• To give us the benefit of doubt, if you have any doubts, and

• To put your time and energy into something positive and constructive. Preferably for the benefit of the BBS.



There's nothing more to be added in the above discussion, and I have mostly just repeated and rephrased myself. Every time you prolong a needless and pointless argument a baby panda dies.



Also



• Today I learned that Alt+7 gives you a •. •••. It's that easy! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... sakura.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

[Kago]

[quote name='Tsuki' post='67623' date='Aug 19 2009, 08:38 PM']I was speaking about the two current admins who have posted in this thread, and the past admins as well. If all these admins were not qualified to make decisions for the board, then why are they administrators? The community is being informed now, with one admin addition and a request for helping to pick a new one.[/quote]



Aine was not an admin at the time the decision was made. It was one admin choosing to elect a new one without discussion and choosing to let go of one without discussion, which has been my point the entire thread.

[strawberryjam]

I asked sadude his opinion on aine. He was for it and suggested that I keep it to him and myself for now, but look for new admin's as well. He also said no one else came to mind right now really.



sadude was the one that started enforcing the if-you're-not-active-you-should-step-down thing.

He was also my guidance for writing this thread in the first place.

[tsukinobyouin]

• Admins' role is to keep the board running and in the best shape possible. Sometimes this involves making authoritative decisions which they are fully entitled to. I'm sorry if you're not happy with the decision that was made.

Sure, things like "lets delete this completely inactive section / merge it with this other one" or "let's make these technical background changes to make things run more efficiently" or "let's close this thread / ban this member / make some new rules."



Not "I'm going to add a new admin." That has always been a decision that has come with input from the community.

• There may have been other ways to solve what was going on behind the scenes lately, perhaps better ways. But it was solved in the way it was solved, and what matters now is what we will do from now on.

That's kind of what people are getting at. Instead of you guys saying "Okay, how about for the next admin selection we do things differently" you just keep reiterating the same thing over and over - that you guys are going to make whatever decisions you want, regardless of what the actual members of the BBS you're wanting to help and revive feel about them. It would be easier to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're asking for if your answer to every questioning of the admin actions wasn't essentially "A decision was made, who cares what the bbs thinks, discussion over."

[Pflaume]

Since I've been absent lately, my opinion might not matter much... but I really feel the urge to throw in my two cents.



What upsets me about this is that there WAS obvious remarking on others, even if it's indirect and pretends not to be, which has been a problem for a while... and with several people.



Passive-aggresively making it obvious some shit went down is no good. I want the BBS to be united, really and truly. We're all friends here with different groups, and this indirect insulting each other crap is really causing unrest. It's no surprise when other people feel the need to call suspicious wording and actions out. If we're going to hint at it, let's at least be totally honest... or otherwise do our best to keep it off the BBS completely.



I really like everyone involved, so this is beyond depressing. Please don't just half keep secrets. This reminds me of divorcing parents who snipe at each other in front of their kids. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />



PS: http://www.entertonement.com/clips/nzkpdsk...mily-Guy-WASPs-

[aine]

Not "I'm going to add a new admin." That has always been a decision that has come with input from the community.

I can't give an example off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure personal decisions on the admin level were previously made among the admin team only and without much or any ado about it.

• There may have been other ways to solve what was going on behind the scenes lately, perhaps better ways. But it was solved in the way it was solved, and what matters now is what we will do from now on.

That's kind of what people are getting at. Instead of you guys saying "Okay, how about for the next admin selection we do things differently" you just keep reiterating the same thing over and over - that you guys are going to make whatever decisions you want, regardless of what the actual members of the BBS you're wanting to help and revive feel about them. It would be easier to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're asking for if your answer to every questioning of the admin actions wasn't essentially "A decision was made, who cares what the bbs thinks, discussion over."

By "we" I meant exactly everyone participating in the BBS, not just me and Shelly. It makes me sad that you're seeing things in the us/them categories. Also, I still say the situation was serious, so the measure taken was also adequately serious ("extreme" if you wish). It was never said or suggested that that would become the norm once the situation is stable.



As Shelly said for now we will focus on smoothing things out, but when we get around to selecting the next admin, how about we do things differently?

I want the BBS to be united, really and truly. We're all friends here

Pflaume... <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />



Thanks, that's the best thing that was said in this thread, and I subscribe to it fully.



You're right that some shit went down. We could have just pretended that it didn't, but then it would eventually surface and explode in everyone's faces. We could have flushed it and announced that there was shit but now it's gone and lets enjoy our nice and fresh BBS. Finally, we could have brought the shit out for everyone to see and then dissected and analysed it little sticky piece after piece.



We went for the middle solution as the most hygienic one. It has a drawback that it requires some collective trust and benefit of doubt. The third one would in some ways be preferable, but - it's sticky, it's smelly, it shows some private issues some would not want to divulge publicly, and in fact it's gooey and drags on and there never seems to be the end to splitting it in ever smaller pieces. AND at this moment there would be only one interpretation of that analysis which means that the picture would be largely incomplete because this particular shit was amazingly expelled by two parties in a collective, even if unintended, effort.



... I may have went too far with this metaphor. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /pouty.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> But you get the point, right?



This whole thing is making our heads explode and we just wish for it all to be over with. We really hoped for a smooth movement transition, but apparently that was too much to ask for. We really wish we could have just put all the enthusiasm and energy we had into reviving the BBS from the slumber, but if we're made to use most of our energy for keeping any enthusiasm at all, then so be it. We will still do our best.



Thank you. Good night.

[tsukinobyouin]

Not "I'm going to add a new admin." That has always been a decision that has come with input from the community.

I can't give an example off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure personal decisions on the admin level were previously made among the admin team only and without much or any ado about it.

Well if you can come up with a recent one, we can discuss this point more. Even if you do, there's still a big difference between a team of admins making a big decision like this versus one. This is sort of the elephant in the room, but the fact that you are her boyfriend does make it a little more of an issue that probably should have come up before the BBS. Unless I missed something before I joined, there hasn't really been a situation like that in the past. Hell the admins before the Peach-Sadude-Shelly team weren't even friends. Not to say that they hated each other, or even to say that you and Shelly might not work around your relationship as admins - but it is still a big factor to consider.

By "we" I meant exactly everyone participating in the BBS, not just me and Shelly. It makes me sad that you're seeing things in the us/them categories. Also, I still say the situation was serious, so the measure taken was also adequately serious ("extreme" if you wish). It was never said or suggested that that would become the norm once the situation is stable.



As Shelly said for now we will focus on smoothing things out, but when we get around to selecting the next admin, how about we do things differently?

Your last sentence is basically what people have been trying to get you guys to say. A simple "Hey, sorry this didn't go over as smoothly as we thought, we'll do things differently for the next admin." So since that's finally come out, I'm dropping out of the argument for now. But to explain the "us/them" categories - they didn't come out of nowhere. The way you've presented your side so far has been to say "This is our decision. Shelly is admin and her word is law." and then every one of your posts ends in some sort of "end of discussion" type line that implies you don't care to hear what any non-admin members have to say. That works when you're closing some sort of out of control H!P photobook discussion thread, but not when a new admin has suddenly been appointed out of nowhere. As for the dire situation you say the bbs is in - I've yet to see any evidence of that. This board has chugged along for months now with the same low level of activity. You really honestly believe that a few days or even a week of discussion over an admin was going to shut it down for good?

[Cyrene]

Interesting. I just want to say (and not to start wank, that is not my intention) that having people volunteer for admin positions instead of randomly filling them just because someone helps pay for the board may be a better way to do things. I have helped bring this board back from ~shut down~ and I don't expect special treatment. I just expect a shot at helping with the board. I'm not going to throw senority out there, but what if there WERE members that wanted to be admin but just couldn't? And yes, Aine is your BF. It's a conflict of interest somewhat...seems like 'favoritism' if one didn't know the circumstances of how he helped the board.



I know you have staff sign ups and that's all well and good, but admin > staff. Maybe we should of had a vote? Who knows. And no, I'm not crying or anything about the position; I get paid to moderate at my job and don't really want another babysitting type of duty on my plate. I've just seen a lot of admin changes since I've been here since 2003. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />



Oh, and too bad about Peach. Sucks to lose admins (especially if drama was involved somehow).

[eri]

Umm not to throw more on the fire but this is a genuine question: is it such a big deal? Like, does anyone actually WANT to be an admin? It always seemed like a lot of work to me.



Since everyone always had the best interests of the board at heart, I'm happy with whatever choices are made.



Also, seriously, how many BBS couples are/were there?



And, if I became an admin, I'd TOTALLY abuse my power. Just saying.



Edit: also, I thought Aine was a girl for just about forever.