Ayumi Hamasaki can no longer sing

[neshcom]

Articles pulled from Ayu's Story

Livedoor: The way of singing is too much! The vocal skills of Kouhaku's Top Batter, Hamasaki Ayumi



Kouhaku's, which reached it's 60th broadcast, top batter of the night was the impressive Hamasaki Ayumi, but no one could believe the sound they heard from her voice. She had just finished apologizing for the performance the other day where her voice didn't come out, but her singing voice this day, as an artist was also a "..." kind of feeling.



It seemed that this top batter was forcing her voice out of her, and if we say it directly, it was hard to listen to. However, if she doesnt use this voice, would her voice be able to come out?



From before, people have been saying that "her voice won't come out" or "that singing voice is so awful," to the point where even her fans have been saying "I didn't even think her voice went this far" after her voice didn't come out on live broadcast.



They put her in a time slot where ratings don't matter, which made us think that the era of Hamasaki Ayumi is finally and truly over. The only saving grace was that EXILE performed right after her. The fact that these famous singers were partners and did not abandon her was the only appealing factor.



However, if we listen just to this day's voice, there was already no trace of the Singing Queen of the past.

J-CAST: 'As a singer, this was my worst' Hamasaki's Shocking Blog Confession



What in the world has happened to Hamasaki Ayumi? From the succession of programs where her voice doesn't even come out, to the outrage from her fans online, Hamasaki Ayumi looked back, and apologized and confessed on her blog that this has truly been her worst as a singer.



The circumstances on the Music Festival, in which Hamasaki Ayumi sang the huge hit "Evolution," were a little different than the high pitched and strong voice that had mesmerized audiences before. Her voice didn't come out, as she turned her back to the camera... and after, with an expression of a painful smile, she shouted "I'm sorry."



"I can't say any excuse. Anyways, it's very regrettable."



She wrote about the experience on her blog on the 16th, apologizing to fans, saying that "As a singer, in my opinion, it was my worst. I have no excuse, and I'm really sorry. My training isn't enough, and I really need to get serious." and, "I have to sing these songs, I have to transmit these songs. That is the meaning of my existence, and I want to continue working hard so I can have a stage where I can be at east and have fun."



But more, being told that "Ayu's voice won't come out" started MORE than a year ago.



On Yahoo's Q&A site, a huge shock has spread. A question asked recently was "When I see Ayu recently, it's so painful. What does everyone think?" "When I listen, I even get painful."



These were the answers that followed.



"When I listen, it's painful. It seemed like the chest would be hurt."

"It seems like, when it comes to her voice, and even her figure, she isn't making any efforts to improve it."

"I think she should go overseas and start from 0, with her voice training. If she doesn't..."



And these kinds of worried voices, but also strict opinions came together.



Checking the video site Youtube, we inspected the Boys & Girls performance at Music Fair 21 in 2009, comparing to the time Boys & Girls was put for sale, and we saw that half way through her singing style looked so painful, and of course, didn't come out. Half way though, the back chorus starting singing the main parts, which was an unexplainable development. Those who watched the show said "Her voice is dead, right?" "She could sing this in the past, but now, she can't even get her voice to come out." "It was a laugh when the main chorus started singing the main", with the remaining impressions stated in a similar fashion.



What in the world happened to Hamasaki Ayumi? Is it the influence of her ear problem? We asked this question to Avex Management, but we have yet to receive the reply.

Trike made a good point a while back:

Ayu's sales are in the GUTTER btw. I think Japan's finally realize how much she suuuuuuucks now. Compare these two videos:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZWPBjJ7fLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tztIr_Pfaco



It's sad and I really hope she does retire this year before smearing her image completely. She used to be amazing, and now she's downright horrible. It sucks that she's going deaf, but she's a singer. A deaf person shouldn't be singing. She probably has enough money to live comfortably for the rest of her life, and can still do TV appearances and such, I guess.

[tsukinobyouin]

She wrote about the experience on her blog on the 16th, apologizing to fans, saying that "As a singer, in my opinion, it was my worst. I have no excuse, and I'm really sorry. My training isn't enough, and I really need to get serious." and, "I have to sing these songs, I have to transmit these songs. That is the meaning of my existence, and I want to continue working hard so I can have a stage where I can be at east and have fun."

Woman, you're DEAF. MOVE ON. Bow out gracefully. It's probably a combination of the deafness and her wearing her voice out through so many performances over the years. To be honest, she was never an ~*amaaaazing*~ singer to begin with. More like cute, or idol-good. The high pitched voice she used to sing in sounds forced in comparison to her speaking voice, and doing that for years and years can take a toll on you.



Someone needs to sit her down and tell her it's time to retire from singing and move on to writing/producing, something she's always been good at.

[Melon]

How can you no longer sing if you could never sing to begin with? -ba ba dink-



Ouch, that last video linked made me grimace in pain and not from what I normally would. It seems like she overworked her voice to the point that it's damaged beyond repair. She needs to stop before she loses her voice entirely. Working harder and extra "training" is not going to fix it. But she'd been on top for so long the lack of any sort of fame would make her breakdown. I'm sure the people working with her, be it the doctors, vocal teachers, musicians, ect. know that her voice is dying. I don't know if they don't tell her, or if she refuses to listen. When people that aren't professionals can tell your voice is strained then something major is wrong. She needs to stop before she becomes more of a laughingstock has been than she already is.



[quote name='TnB' post='74433' date='Jan 21 2010, 08:12 AM']Someone needs to sit her down and tell her it's time to retire from singing and move on to writing/producing, something she's always been good at.[/quote]

I should really QFT the entire thing, but I'll just do this snippet for space. QFT

[Sabaku Ika]

I will always treasure the ear-splitting screeches of her early years as a singer. She became boring once she learned to control her voice and now that she's lost it again, I look forward to what's next.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

[quote name='TnB' post='74433' date='Jan 21 2010, 09:12 AM']Woman, you're DEAF. MOVE ON. Bow out gracefully. It's probably a combination of the deafness and her wearing her voice out through so many performances over the years. To be honest, she was never an ~*amaaaazing*~ singer to begin with. More like cute, or idol-good. The high pitched voice she used to sing in sounds forced in comparison to her speaking voice, and doing that for years and years can take a toll on you.



Someone needs to sit her down and tell her it's time to retire from singing and move on to writing/producing, something she's always been good at.[/quote]

Agreeeeed. My god. I don't know if this is her having too much pride, or no pride at all. She needs to do herself and her fans a favor by just stopping. No one wans to remember their favorite singer as falling from grace and retiring because she's half-deaf, blown out her voice, and records aren't selling.



I guess it's a little too late for that, though.

[showraniy]

Agh, Ayumi.



The problem with Ayumi is her inability to rest or tell herself enough is enough. She's a workaholic, and I worry that one day she'll work herself to exhaustion or death. Whichever comes first. Her unnatural singing voice already pushed her vocal chords to the limit. I've always given her credit that she trained the shit out of that horrible voice though, and was able to put real meaning to the phrase "Hard work beats talent" because of it. But after her deaf-deal and then the broken hand that she still performed with to the point of needing to lip synch songs just to get through the concert because of the pain... I'm worried that she's just going to continue pushing herself until there's nothing left to push.



I feel this way because I have the same mentality, and often feel like a failure and berate myself if I can't overcome obstacles--insurmountable or not. It's not healthy, but it's even worse for someone at the absolute height of the Japanese music industry. She needs to take a break, chill out, and come back to music later. Most preferrably as a producer or songwriter for someone else.



Do like other past-their-prime artists and help produce a younger, up-and-coming artist to stardom.

[ShinUkyo]

I'm pleasantly surprised by the responses so far. You guys have pretty much summed up most of what I woulda said myself. And we haven't had anyone barge in here yet, saying stuff like, "She sucks ass! She's a dumb bitch!" and so forth. Very good to hear some objective responses on this. As a couple folks said, she needs to focus on producing and mentoring younger acts. She has always been a great writer, and she's an immensely creative talent. This will not change, regardless of what happens with her voice. Then again, people have said the same sorta things about Tsunku. And his last concert DVD with SharamQ, released only a few years ago, was one of my favorites of this decade. So obviously he still has a spark in him. Then again, yeah, Hamasaki's vocal degradation is in a whole 'nother universe from his.

[aine]

[quote name='neshcom' post='74432' date='Jan 21 2010, 03:35 PM'][quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='73555' date='Jan 3 2010, 04:22 PM']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tztIr_Pfaco[/quote][/quote]

Oh dear, I didn't see this before, but... It was really painful and sad. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/nono.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



While not exactly a fan, but despite all the Ayu hate and mockery on this board - was it serious or not - I have always respected her for her actual talents and saw her through mild nostalgia goggles as she was one of my first major gateways to J-music. My interest peaked around I am... and then slowly waned, but her singing wasn't anywhere near this bad when I have last watched her recent performances a year ago or so.



Couple that with the articles nesh has posted, and it all feels a bit hearbreaking to me. Especially the parts about fans turning away and mocking her. I guess that's part of the show-business' cruelty, but somehow I feel this is especially disgusting. I feel sorry for her and hope she will handle it well and come to her senses and just let it go. She needs it. All overambitious and overachieving people need it, but that's another story. Her voice is old and tired and probably beyond repair, and all the "more effort" talk is utter crap. I really hope she won't insist upon becoming an even more sad caricature of her older glorious self. And that we won't in some time hear a very tragic end of this story if the realisation of her fall from the top proves too harsh for her.



I guess I have mainly repeated what others have already said, but the whole thing was quite of a cold shower to me and I felt like ranting it out. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... unsure.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

[Geof]

So once ayu retires, which jpop idol will become the fashionable one for everyone to goof on & not admit to owning recordings of?

[al kusanagi]

Kumi Koda. She became a talentless whorebag pretty much the exact time the Rat-Faced Lady started to fall.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

[quote name='Geof' post='74453' date='Jan 21 2010, 08:51 PM']So once ayu retires, which jpop idol will become the fashionable one for everyone to goof on & not admit to owning recordings of?[/quote]

Morning Musume.

[eri]

[quote name='neshcom' post='74432' date='Jan 21 2010, 05:35 AM'][quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='73555' date='Jan 3 2010, 04:22 PM']Compare these two videos:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZWPBjJ7fLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tztIr_Pfaco[/quote]

[/quote]



Well. It wasn't THAT bad, right? She's still hitting the notes more or less, which is more than what I can say about many mm members. But her voice sounds incredibly strained. Does that really happen if you don't rest your vocal chords? How do people have singing careers for years and years then?

[neshcom]

[quote name='Geof' post='74453' date='Jan 21 2010, 08:51 PM']So once ayu retires, which jpop idol will become the fashionable one for everyone to goof on & not admit to owning recordings of?[/quote]

FYI Koda Kumi is going nowhere. No, not until the reckoning.



In a literal sense (and because I wrote this before I re-read your post), Koda Kumi is no longer fashionable. Koda could've had a shot at being the next good music idol, but she's had WAY too many covers for my liking recently.



I proclaim the new era of Namie's reign, though it'll only be so long until she needs to take air tanks on stage.



Our amigos at Bitches Aloud have been proclaiming alan as the next big thing and has repeatedly called out Maki as having some good potential to be number-one fox.



Or who knows, maybe Max Matsuura will find another ex-Sony act singing in karaoke with family drama and a pension for songs with English titles.

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='mEri' post='74458' date='Jan 21 2010, 11:44 PM'][quote name='neshcom' post='74432' date='Jan 21 2010, 05:35 AM'][quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='73555' date='Jan 3 2010, 04:22 PM']Compare these two videos:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZWPBjJ7fLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tztIr_Pfaco[/quote]

[/quote]



Well. It wasn't THAT bad, right? She's still hitting the notes more or less, which is more than what I can say about many mm members. But her voice sounds incredibly strained. Does that really happen if you don't rest your vocal chords? How do people have singing careers for years and years then?

[/quote]



People that have singing careers for years and years usually either a.) Get worse over time, but people put up with it because they're a legend or their songs are just really good, b.) Were a lot better singers than Ayu ever was to begin with, c.) are classically trained and know a lot of techniques for voice preservation or d.) a combination of the above.



I'm sure someone else more knowledgeable can elaborate on this, but as far as I know it has to do more with how you sing rather than how often you sing. There are various techniques for breathing, ways to sing that put less of a strain on your throat, etc. There's also the fact that the singing voice she uses is already forced (meaning it's not her natural voice). But on top of all that, she's losing her hearing. If you can't entirely hear how bad you are, it's hard to correct yourself.

[neshcom]

[quote name='TnB' post='74463' date='Jan 22 2010, 12:50 AM'][quote name='mEri' post='74458' date='Jan 21 2010, 11:44 PM'][quote name='neshcom' post='74432' date='Jan 21 2010, 05:35 AM'][quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='73555' date='Jan 3 2010, 04:22 PM']Compare these two videos:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZWPBjJ7fLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tztIr_Pfaco[/quote]

[/quote]



Well. It wasn't THAT bad, right? She's still hitting the notes more or less, which is more than what I can say about many mm members. But her voice sounds incredibly strained. Does that really happen if you don't rest your vocal chords? How do people have singing careers for years and years then?

[/quote]



People that have singing careers for years and years usually either a.) Get worse over time, but people put up with it because they're a legend or their songs are just really good, b.) Were a lot better singers than Ayu ever was to begin with, c.) are classically trained and know a lot of techniques for voice preservation or d.) a combination of the above.



I'm sure someone else more knowledgeable can elaborate on this, but as far as I know it has to do more with how you sing rather than how often you sing. There are various techniques for breathing, ways to sing that put less of a strain on your throat, etc. There's also the fact that the singing voice she uses is already forced (meaning it's not her natural voice). But on top of all that, she's losing her hearing. If you can't entirely hear how bad you are, it's hard to correct yourself.

[/quote]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Yeah, she's hitting the notes, but she's trying too hard to sound like this vibrato pop diva and those notes end up being the only good ones. Listen to the chorus in the link (1:15). It's starts off okay, but after that 'eien no,' her vocals are slightly off-key and her inflection is too nasal. Her voice comes off as brittle and amateurish. She doesn't sing from her core, but from the top of her throat except for her long, vibrato notes which really abruptly change style (2:27 'dekirukoto').



tl;dr: it's half being off-pitch, half too nasally inbetween Aretha-wannabe notes.

[loli-tan]

I've never liked her much anyway. I just can't get into her music. I've tried, but eh. Not for me.



If she's deaf, she shouldn't be singing for fuck's sake! Go retire. She has enough money for the rest of her life anyway.

[aine]

I do not own any Ayu recordings. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... omgwtf.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':omgwtf:' /> But damn if I wouldn't like to lay my hands on some of her Single Vs, as many of her PVs are some of the best to come out of Japan (budget, budget).



Kumi Koda to me is little more than gratuitous amounts of booty shakin' that is now some 5 years past its time, so no. If anyone, Utada comes much much closer Ayu's versatility and production quality. I'll admit I don't really follow this segment much though.



[quote name='mEri' post='74458' date='Jan 22 2010, 06:44 AM']Well. It wasn't THAT bad, right? She's still hitting the notes more or less, which is more than what I can say about many mm members. But her voice sounds incredibly strained. Does that really happen if you don't rest your vocal chords? How do people have singing careers for years and years then?[/quote]

She sounds like she's just ran a double marathon and like her vocal cords were made out of two slabs of beef jerky. Implying that's because that's by the end of the concert = denial.

[eri]

Then, that is very unfortunate. I'm not a fan of her music style, but I did remember being a bit wow'ed by her when she first became huge in the late 1990s (Boys & Girls, etc). She's always been easy to hate because she was SO over the top popular despite the bare bones amount of singing talent she displayed. Plus, she looks like an alien. I have no comment on her song writing abilities because I did not follow her music enough to know one way or the other. At the very least, her fashion-showesque concerts and PVs did impress me.



Some of the comments here are kind of sad. There is no glory in kicking someone when they are down, imo.

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='74456' date='Jan 21 2010, 08:20 PM'][quote name='Geof' post='74453' date='Jan 21 2010, 08:51 PM']So once ayu retires, which jpop idol will become the fashionable one for everyone to goof on & not admit to owning recordings of?[/quote]

Morning Musume.

[/quote]

You must be talking about 2004, my good man.

[furuya]

I thought I was noticing degradation with each new album. Of course it's easy to see during live performances, but something about her voice was just not the same by the time RAINBOW came out in '02. I'll own up to liking all her stuff through then, including RAINBOW.



She should pull a Celine Dion and rest for two years.

[showraniy]

It's been said countless times already, but I'd like to just get this out and elaborate on it a bit:



Singing coaches don't ideally exist to teach people how to sing. They exist to teach people how to sing in a way that's the least damaging to their vocal chords and longevity as a singer. That's not to say that there aren't cases of people being trained to sing from nothing, but the coaches primarily exist to train people who already know how to sing well--but may not always know how to sing in the way that's best for them.



Case in point, singing coaches instruct their students to sing with their diaphragm rather than nasally or in their throats. It's partially because singing with the diaphragm allows a lot more variety in singing style, but also because, over time, nasal and throat singing can damage the vocal chords and overall hinder the ability to sing. Sure, you can sound nice if you train hard enough, but it's a lot harder on the person singing to sing in that manner. Nasal singing was popular in 90s Japan, and so that's how Ayumi learned to sing originally. Even Namie still reverts to nasal singing in her concerts sometimes because it's easier (especially while dancing and moving around).



Even Utada, who's never had proper training in singing, is unable to sing in concert the way she can on CD. She injured her voice in her last big Japanese tour, Utada United 2006, because sure, she can sing extremely well and has a nice voice, but she's never been taught techniques that lessen the strain and make it easier for her.



To sum it all up, a tired voice sounds one way; a strained one sounds totally different. And Ayumi's voice is strained from years of not taking care of it or herself.

[eri]

[quote name='showraniy' post='74479' date='Jan 22 2010, 09:38 AM']It's been said countless times already, but I'd like to just get this out and elaborate on it a bit:



Singing coaches don't ideally exist to teach people how to sing. They exist to teach people how to sing in a way that's the least damaging to their vocal chords and longevity as a singer. That's not to say that there aren't cases of people being trained to sing from nothing, but the coaches primarily exist to train people who already know how to sing well--but may not always know how to sing in the way that's best for them.



...Nasal singing was popular in 90s Japan, and so that's how Ayumi learned to sing originally. Even Namie still reverts to nasal singing in her concerts sometimes because it's easier (especially while dancing and moving around).



Even Utada, who's never had proper training in singing, is unable to sing in concert the way she can on CD. She injured her voice in her last big Japanese tour, Utada United 2006, because sure, she can sing extremely well and has a nice voice, but she's never been taught techniques that lessen the strain and make it easier for her.[/quote]



Thanks for this.



What I find interesting then --and perhaps even more disturbing -- is the lack of care provided to singers in the entertainment world.



If Utada Hikaru, daughter of music industry mega-stars, cannot get proper voice care and training, then what? Arguably, most aspiring idols never have proper vocal training. Just think about the 12 year olds singing karaoke at home who then audition for MM or the "variety idol" angle that most teens/20s launch into. So we can safely assume that many people do not gain proper training before reaching some degree of celebrity. When that person DOES get signed, get promoted, gain huge contractual obligations to produce, sing, perform.....what happens? Given what we know about the crazy schedules of Japanese entertainers and the demanding terms of their contracts (see Korean contracts too), I wonder if the company invests in them enough to allow for proper training and rest. Is this something they have to pursue on their own? Is that even possible given their time constraints?



All I can think about was BoA actually saying how exhausted she was on tv and how all she wanted was to retire (she was maybe 19 when she said this).



Do music labels literally snap singers up, wring out as much money as they can, and then throw them away?

[showraniy]

[quote name='mEri' post='74486' date='Jan 22 2010, 03:28 PM']Thanks for this.



What I find interesting then --and perhaps even more disturbing -- is the lack of care provided to singers in the entertainment world.



If Utada Hikaru, daughter of music industry mega-stars, cannot get proper voice care and training, then what? Arguably, most aspiring idols never have proper vocal training. Just think about the 12 year olds singing karaoke at home who then audition for MM or the "variety idol" angle that most teens/20s launch into. So we can safely assume that many people do not gain proper training before reaching some degree of celebrity. When that person DOES get signed, get promoted, gain huge contractual obligations to produce, sing, perform.....what happens? Given what we know about the crazy schedules of Japanese entertainers and the demanding terms of their contracts (see Korean contracts too), I wonder if the company invests in them enough to allow for proper training and rest. Is this something they have to pursue on their own? Is that even possible given their time constraints?



All I can think about was BoA actually saying how exhausted she was on tv and how all she wanted was to retire (she was maybe 19 when she said this).



Do music labels literally snap singers up, wring out as much money as they can, and then throw them away?[/quote]



I probably wouldn't go so far as to say the music industry intentionally overworks its artists and/or underprepares them for stardom. It happens a lot when music companies seek to MAKE a star out of someone rather than seeking to give an already talented person stardom. In the idol world, that's more often than not, obviously. But I don't think it's an intentional will to do harm to the artist or artists.



I can't speak for absolute certain, of course, but I always figured that, in Utada's case, it was the laziness of the label that she never received adequate vocal training. She was already considered a prodigy with an amazing voice at the time she debuted, and she's actually always sung from the diaphragm, so her label probably didn't think it was necessary to train her much at all. And Toshiba-EMI (now just EMI) has always been extremely lax with what they demand from her. She has a pretty laidback life aside from producing her own music. She doesn't tour often, her promotional activities are renowned for consisting of nearly nothing (one or two interviews, one or two live performances on Heyx3 or Music Station), and her blog indicates she has lots of free time by the content of her posts.



BoA, TVXQ, Super Junior, etc. are all special cases because they're marketed kind of like idols. They AREN'T idols, because there's a bigger emphasis on the singing part of their jobs, but SM Entertainment is notorious for pimping out its artists and pretty much doing anything to maximize profit off of them. I feel sorry for those artists and especially BoA since she's been with them for so long. Admittedly, I don't keep up with BoA's music, but she is actually also a nasal singer. Extremely nasal. Some artists vary between nasal and more guttural singing, but I've only ever heard BoA sing nasally. Never anything lower. She's just been trained a hell of a lot, and her nasal singing voice is probably not as forced or as high as Ayumi's, so she's able to keep it up longer. I'm not sure how rigorous her touring and other schedules are either, but I'm willing to bet Ayumi's is more rigorous and taxing, so that probably contributes to the problem. Not to mention Ayumi controls an extremely large portion of her career (more stress) whereas BoA has zero control over her career.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

[quote name='mEri' post='74467' date='Jan 22 2010, 03:22 AM']Some of the comments here are kind of sad. There is no glory in kicking someone when they are down, imo.[/quote]

I think we're just being realistic. MM-BBS isn't a hugbox. Her voice is beyond repair and is painful to listen to. Even if she is on-key most of the time, that's really not enough. You can say that she's on key more than MM, but MM are idols, and she's an actual singer. An actual singer should be completely on-key, not sound like she's squeezing words out with all her might, and be miles better than idols.



I don't think it's reasonable to say "well, she's not THAT bad" or that she just needs training/a break. The woman's half deaf and has been singing the wrong way for over 10 years. There's no shame in quitting and going behind the scenes if you've worn yourself out.





[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='74476' date='Jan 22 2010, 12:21 PM']You must be talking about 2004, my good man.[/quote]

WHY WON'T YOU LET ME DREAM <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':omgwtf:' />

[Melon]

[quote name='showraniy' post='74487' date='Jan 22 2010, 03:14 PM']really interesting stuffs[/quote]



Thanks for the interesting read. Err..that's all I wanted to say.



I'll admit to owning 2 singles from Ayu, the only two songs I could stand by her. Even a wrong clock is correct twice a day...

[eri]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='74491' date='Jan 22 2010, 02:40 PM']Even if she is on-key most of the time, that's really not enough. You can say that she's on key more than MM, but MM are idols, and she's an actual singer. An actual singer should be completely on-key, not sound like she's squeezing words out with all her might, and be miles better than idols.



I don't think it's reasonable to say "well, she's not THAT bad" or that she just needs training/a break. The woman's half deaf and has been singing the wrong way for over 10 years. There's no shame in quitting and going behind the scenes if you've worn yourself out.[/quote]



Meeeh, thats a pretty bullshit argument because H.Ayu and other pop stars are "idols" too. I don't like how arbitrary industry divisions are flagged up and down as some barometer of requisite skill when most musical celebrities in Japan host TV shows, shill products, and produce self-glorifying Pbs and other gimmicks and most idols sing songs, give concerts, and perform on stage. Those boundaries might hold if you're comparing Bz to S/mileage but Amuro, Hamasaki, BoA and an entire legion of female popstars (not to mention people like Matsuda Seiko) have also generally been called idols. Hamasaki has done virtually everything your run-of-the-mill idol has done - just on an exceptionally successful level. My point is, doesn't Ayu have enough going on in her career to make up for her flagging voice? Because it is absurd that people are suggesting Ayu retire on the basis of her voice when they hold avatars of amazingly untalented singers in H!P.



Also, I agree that most people are being realistic. However, I noted that SOME comments are kind of sad and the wording of the same "she should retire" idea can communicate something far different than what you've noted. Like this

[quote name='Zazie' post='74465' date='Jan 21 2010, 11:07 PM']I've never liked her much anyway. I just can't get into her music. I've tried, but eh. Not for me.

If she's deaf, she shouldn't be singing for fuck's sake! Go retire. She has enough money for the rest of her life anyway.[/quote]

[neshcom]

[quote name='mEri' post='74499' date='Jan 22 2010, 07:23 PM'][quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='74491' date='Jan 22 2010, 02:40 PM']Even if she is on-key most of the time, that's really not enough. You can say that she's on key more than MM, but MM are idols, and she's an actual singer. An actual singer should be completely on-key, not sound like she's squeezing words out with all her might, and be miles better than idols.



I don't think it's reasonable to say "well, she's not THAT bad" or that she just needs training/a break. The woman's half deaf and has been singing the wrong way for over 10 years. There's no shame in quitting and going behind the scenes if you've worn yourself out.[/quote]



Meeeh, thats a pretty bullshit argument because H.Ayu and other pop stars are "idols" too. I don't like how arbitrary industry divisions are flagged up and down as some barometer of requisite skill when most musical celebrities in Japan host TV shows, shill products, and produce self-glorifying Pbs and other gimmicks and most idols sing songs, give concerts, and perform on stage. Those boundaries might hold if you're comparing Bz to S/mileage but Amuro, Hamasaki, BoA and an entire legion of female popstars (not to mention people like Matsuda Seiko) have also generally been called idols. Hamasaki has done virtually everything your run-of-the-mill idol has done - just on an exceptionally successful level. My point is, doesn't Ayu have enough going on in her career to make up for her flagging voice? Because it is absurd that people are suggesting Ayu retire on the basis of her voice when they hold avatars of amazingly untalented singers in H!P.

[/quote]

I think Ayu has moved beyond her idol phase into pop stardom. In my eyes, an idol is a singer who sells their singing and personalities, where bigger pop icons (like Ayu and Seiko) sell their singing in places where they show some of their personalities. Yeah, Ayu does magazine covers and appears on TV, but if she wasn't using all of these as a means to plug the single of the week, she wouldn't be in those situations because she isn't selling Ayu-tan, but Ayumi Hamasaki's new song (in fact, Ayu used to be a model for a short while before she was even on Sony before she was given the boot for being too short). All of her non-singing works stem from her extremely popular history and just that.



This is why we still see ex-H!P/H!P people end up in non-shilling places (like Tokito Ami and Ogawa Makoto on Ninja Warrior) because they also work on selling they're personalities. Look at Yaguchi and Satoda, yeah, they've done selling of their sporadic singles, but they also just spend a lot of time being a personality or even comediennes.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

Yeah, agreeing with neshcom here. I do not consider Ayu an idol, at least not anymore, sorry. She's an artist. Like neshcom said, she really does not have the personality aspect that idols are supposed to have. People like Ayu because they like her music. I doubt many people will say "Yeah, I like Ayu because she's funny/pretty/cute/whatever. Oh, her singing? Eh, that's fine too, I guess" like you would hear about actual idols like Sayumi. Just because she released a PB like 10 years ago doesn't mean she's still in that idol image. Everything I see/hear about Ayu concerns her music. If she is on TV, she's either performing, or plugging a release, unlike actual idols who do talent work whenever they can nail a spot, being dramas, variety shows, movies, etc. Ayu doesn't do that. She's an artist. Her appeal is supposed to be her art, being her singing voice. Idols sell their looks (PBs), personality (TV, movie appearances), and SOMETIMES voice (CDs, concerts) as much as they can. There IS supposed to be a wall of skill there. I don't expect idols to be great singers, just as I don't expect actual artists to be stunning in the looks apartment or have an interesting personality. They're on two ends of the spectrum.



Also, sorry, but I find current Ayu to be less pleasant to listen to than most of H!P, including the amazingly untalented singer in my avatar.

[tsukinobyouin]

Seconding everything neshcom and Trike said. In addition, Ayu has a lot of control over her own career which is a pretty big part of the general distinction between "artist" and "idol." Idols very rarely get to write much of their own music and make decisions like she does - especially not on major releases. And that's a big part of where people here are coming from when they say she should bow out gracefully and retire to a life behind the scenes. She's been praised for her talent as a songwriter for years, and once again, she is nearly deaf. For that reason alone, it's not mean or insensitive to suggest that she retire from singing. At some point she will not be able to be on beat, on pitch, or on key regardless of her talent level. It really doesn't matter if you label her as idol or artist, unfortunately her condition is going to make continuing on as a singer near impossible. Why not use what talents she does still have instead of struggling against the inevitable and getting beat down for it by the press and the public?

[eri]

OF COURSE there is a distinction between artist and idol. But all I'm saying is, it isn't demarcated so clearly in the cases of pop stars and especially not pop stars that are as famous as Hamasaki. I am baffled by the idea that she completely retire and go "behind the scenes" when we all know the Japanese entertainment world has thousands of avenues for career expansion.



You know who is a great parallel? Mariah Carey. MC had the most mind blowing voice early in her career, won a billion grammys, etc but she's been publicly criticized for losing her singing range and reverting to her new bizarre whispery kind of singing in the last few albums and performances. But its Mariah fucking Carey! She's too busy being her ridiculous slutty butterfly self and is transitioning into film as well. Or, say, Madonna. Has Madonna even made good music in the last 10 years? Yet she is still amazingly active in the public eye because she is legendary at this point. I think Hamasaki is pretty legendary in Japan, even if her fanbase is not as strong as it was before.



I don't even like Hamasaki! I'm just saying these poor-Ayu-just-silently-go-die-alone comments make no logical sense and are probably then carried on the tails of the stereotypical Hamasaki hate on the boards. Should she stop singing? Probably. Should she retire from the industry? That seems extreme.



[quote name='TnB' post='74508' date='Jan 22 2010, 07:18 PM']it's not mean or insensitive to suggest that she retire from singing.[/quote]

When did I ever say it was? In fact, I also clarified my position here:

[quote name='mEri' post='74499' date='Jan 22 2010, 04:23 PM']Also, I agree that most people are being realistic. However, I noted that SOME comments are kind of sad and the wording of the same "she should retire" idea can communicate something far different than what you've noted.[/quote]