The Korean invasion of Japan

[Shoujo Q]

I'm making this thread to talk about the kpop groups that are starting to market themselves in Japan. Of course I'm going to leave a disclamier that I'm fairly new with Kpop so I might leave some stuff out.



In the last few years Kpop has had an explosion of musical talent that's been in the works for quite awhile, but this year it sorta just went boom. And now a few of their very best are going to try and make it in Japan.



I found this interesting article discussing 4Minute's debute back in April when they released teir Japanese version of Muzik. It's quite an interesting read.



There have been a few crossovers in the past that made it big, most notably BoA, DBSK (aka TVXQ), and BigBang.



Do you think 4Minute, Girls' Generation, Kara or 2NE1 have what it takes to topple the likes of AKB48?





4Minute's Japanese singles, Muzik and I My Me Mine didn't do so well, but not horrible. Their first week sales were around 4K each.



The smart move Kara and 4Minute did were getting booked on the same episode of Music Japan as S/mileage, AKB48, Perfume, and AAA. That way they get the attention of a prime group that would buy their singles.



I'll be interested to see how Girls' Generation fair. They haven't released anything in Japanese yet but their special MV collection comes out this week on the 11th. The Same day Kara's Japanese Mister Single drops.



Is anyone interested at all in this besides me? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' />



If these groups make it, do you think it will have an effect on the Japanese grown idol groups like Hello!Project, The 48s and others? Knowing how wotas are really clingy to their Japanese idols, I don't think they'll latch onto the foreigners as much, but the average Japanese girl might. Seeing as how they are more confident in appearance and show off a much more tough girl image compared to image that most Japanese idols give off. (At least when you consider 2NE1 and 4Minute.) I don't know much about Kara and very little about Girls' Generation. I'm still learning. ;D

[eri]

Hey thanks for this thread. Ever since Wonder Girls and all the fuss over Tohoshinki and Big Bang, I've been curious about Kpop. I was pretty into Kpop back in the mid 1990s when it was awesome (DJ Doc, Finkl and early BoA) but stopped following it for a long long time. It seems like there is a huge Kpop boom again though. I don't even know where to begin though. I can't even figure out how to romanize names and look in youtube.



That Japan Time article was pretty interesting. 2 things caught me eye:

Typically the process in Korea has led to groups with a variety of talents, including singers, rappers and dancers with very individual personalities that create diversity. It's the opposite of the typical Japanese approach of finding similar types of girls for each unit.

Well, maybe? I know this was definitely not the formula for groups in the 1990s because back then, success meant:

3 really cute girls + 1 girl who can sing (maybe she is fat, ugly, whatever but thats what plastic surgery is for) = successful girl group

3 decent looking guys who can dance + 1 really pretty guy + 1 very masculine guy who raps = successful boy group

Also, I guess AKB fits that description but early MM did not. Neither did SPEED.

"And Korean boys are more Americanized so they prefer aggressive groups compared to the cute-style groups that suit men in Japan.

This is something I noticed since the 90s too: Korean standards of pretty are very very different. All of the girls are like 6 feet tall and *sexy.* When MM girls "act sexy," it usually still feels like a little kid playing dress up and the default setting is cutesy cute. I never considered this in terms of "Americanization" though and find such a claim pretty far fetched.



The Korean Boom in Japan has been going on pretty strong now since 2004 but there is still a ton of backlash and racism too. It reminds me of the so-called Latin Boom in the US when Ricky Martin became crazy popular and then random white boybands started singing lyrics in Spanish. Even though the "boom" is gone, a lot of those stars have become mainstream and have very active cross over careers. So when a Kpop star can get a hit like Shakira -- without a frantic consciousness of some sort of "boom" -- then I think thats real success. Right now it all feels a little too on-trend.

[tsukinobyouin]

I'm still stuck in the 90's/early 00's of Kpop and have a hard time accepting the new stuff. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' />



I feel like 90's groups were a lot more similar to current Japanese idol groups, at least when it comes to boy bands. 90's kpop boy bands had members that fit into different roles - heartthrob guy, great singer guy, cool guy, rapper guy, dancer guy, etc. Most JE groups are like that - there's usually a heartthrob, an actor, a singer, sometimes a rapper, a funny guy, etc. Girl groups though, I can see where they're going. Especially with current groups - I can't really divide up MM/Berryz/C-ute members into "roles" and there's just way too many girls in AKB to even start.



But I can see girls being more into the girl groups. Girls love Koda Kumi, why not a whole group of (much prettier) Kumi's? If you grab the girl market, you don't really need the wota market.



Personally, while I think it's a great concept in theory, I get annoyed with groups that are playing both markets. Usually there are a lot of repeats (Yay XX has a new single out!! Oh...it's just a Korean version of XX's Japanese release) or one side suffers while the other greatly benefits. It's rare to find an artist tht consistantly puts out awesome songs both in Korea AND Japan without huge gaps in between on one side or the other.

[eri]

[quote name='TnB' post='82639' date='Aug 8 2010, 09:58 AM']I'm still stuck in the 90's/early 00's of Kpop and have a hard time accepting the new stuff. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' />[/quote]

Me too. "You're still my number ooonnneeee"



[quote name='TnB' post='82639' date='Aug 8 2010, 09:58 AM']Personally, while I think it's a great concept in theory, I get annoyed with groups that are playing both markets. Usually there are a lot of repeats (Yay XX has a new single out!! Oh...it's just a Korean version of XX's Japanese release) or one side suffers while the other greatly benefits. It's rare to find an artist tht consistantly puts out awesome songs both in Korea AND Japan without huge gaps in between on one side or the other.[/quote]Who do you listen to?

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='eri' post='82643' date='Aug 8 2010, 01:09 PM'][quote name='TnB' post='82639' date='Aug 8 2010, 09:58 AM']Personally, while I think it's a great concept in theory, I get annoyed with groups that are playing both markets. Usually there are a lot of repeats (Yay XX has a new single out!! Oh...it's just a Korean version of XX's Japanese release) or one side suffers while the other greatly benefits. It's rare to find an artist tht consistantly puts out awesome songs both in Korea AND Japan without huge gaps in between on one side or the other.[/quote]Who do you listen to?

[/quote]



Not a whole lot of anyone these days. I used to try to follow TVXQ, but they fizzled out for me long before they fell apart. Younha though, who I love to death, definitely fits that statement =/ I've also heard BoA fans complain of the same thing, but I can't personally speak about her. Though the thread about her "first Korean album in 5 years" kind of points to this type of thing.

[Shoujo Q]

It's very hard to please everyone AND make original albums if you're trying to do it in three or four different languages. I have to give credit to the Koreans for even trying to tackle such a thing. You don't see any major American artists tailoring their music to a foreign audience. At least it's very very rare if it's done at all.



As much as I enjoy the new Korean wave that's come, I also have issues. They all sound the same to me, that's a big problem I think they'll face once they start trying to expand outside of the country. In the beginning before I really knew how to tell the difference, unless I was actively looking at what was playing, I'd forget what group was singing. What Korea lacks right now is variety. Japan has that, it's got that oozing out of it's musical pours and so it's very easy to distinguish groups or singers that way.



Another thing I discovered is that Korea has an extremely harsh censor law. I didn't realize how harsh till I started to learn more about certain groups and stuff that's been banned from being played. It's kind of shocking to see that half the stuff being "banned" is so low key to me because I've been desensitized by the American and Japanese entertainment industry. Thank You True Blood and Tentacle monsters! I think that's what Korean companies want to come to Japan with their groups most especially and why BoA for one stayed around longer in Japan then in Korea. They have much more freedom to express their styles and open up where as in Korea they are stuck on a very short leash.





That's my opinion. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cryalot:' />

[JPope]

Kpop is better than Jpop at the moment, IMO. Their girl groups are super hot, more mature and very talented. And the tunes are catchy as hell. It wouldn't surprise me to see more of them have hits in Japan based on that alone.

[surasshu]

[quote name='JPope' post='82700' date='Aug 9 2010, 05:15 AM']Kpop is better than Jpop at the moment, IMO. Their girl groups are super hot, more mature and very talented. And the tunes are catchy as hell. It wouldn't surprise me to see more of them have hits in Japan based on that alone.[/quote]

I agree with all of the above, and even the boy bands are better, to the point where I enjoy listening to their stuff. I think the fact that they have to be able to sing is a huge factor in this, because of the nature of the live sets with real bands, and having to do covers and acoustic versions and so on. I also love that Korean pop stars are able to make fun of themselves and have a sense of humor. That's a huge factor for me too.



Now, the fans on the other hand... Damn. These people are the craziest motherfuckers this side of Scientology. And the companies are pretty abusive as well (as evidenced by that recent DBSK lawsuit).



Anyway, Japan's infatuation with the current Kpop scene is understandable to me. They're just really good in a lot of ways.

[eri]

[quote name='JPope' post='82700' date='Aug 8 2010, 08:15 PM']Kpop is better than Jpop at the moment, IMO. Their girl groups are super hot, more mature and very talented. And the tunes are catchy as hell. It wouldn't surprise me to see more of them have hits in Japan based on that alone.[/quote]



I like super hot, mature, and talented singers with songs that are catchy as hell. I can't believe you threw that all out there and didn't name any groups for the rest of us to youtube. Names please.



Japanese boybands are pretty good, aren't they? I can't stand a lot of the Johnny's but Arashi has always been amazing. It is great that the rest of Japan finally started figuring that out in the last few years.



[quote name='///' post='82701' date='Aug 8 2010, 10:49 PM']I think the fact that they have to be able to sing is a huge factor in this, because of the nature of the live sets with real bands, and having to do covers and acoustic versions and so on.[/quote]



Can you explain this? I've still seen TV performances where Kpop groups lipsynch to pre-recorded tracks. Is this an anomaly?

[surasshu]

It does still happen of course, I wouldn't quite say it's an anomaly, but the bigger acts do tend to sing live, as well as get asked to come on radio shows and sing covers, or go on shows like Music Travel LaLaLa. Here's Super Junior doing an SNSD song, and half of SNSD doing a Super Junior song, for example.



And here's an example of the kind of radio show I'm talking about: UI performing "I need a girl boy".

[Shoujo Q]

Cause Kpop fans are SO crazy, they tend to call out the groups if they aren't singing live. That's something I found on allkpop when they post a video and it's not live, the "netziens" they find always seem to call the group out.



Allkpop is a wealth of useless information if you want to understand the mind of kpop fans and what's going on in Korea right now.







Oh and I forgot to add that Brown Eyed Girl is also trying to make it in Japan by releasing their Sound-G album again with an added Japanese cover of Abracadabra.

[tsukinobyouin]

Kpop groups singing live more than once in a blue moon is totally new to me. Back in my day lipsyncing was predominant and live performances were rare. Not to say that there wasn't still some talent going around, though.



I second eri's request for links to these groups that are so talented and hot and have catchy songs? Not that I'm questioning that this is true, I'd just like some more good music to add to my iPod. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':weeeh:' />

[Shoujo Q]

I was going to make this GIANT list of links for you but then while I was searching I found this very good video that pretty much shows every major Korean Idol group and Japanese Idol group side by side with a Music Video AND live performance. I highly recommend it. ;D

[Ap2000]

[quote name='PQ' post='82752' date='Aug 10 2010, 01:52 AM']very good video[/quote]



It's basically H!P & AKB48 vs. Korea. hah

[Shoujo Q]

[quote name='Ap2000' post='82760' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:55 PM'][quote name='PQ' post='82752' date='Aug 10 2010, 01:52 AM']very good video[/quote]



It's basically H!P & AKB48 vs. Korea. hah

[/quote]



Pretty much, but that's all I care about, except the AKB48 part. That can die in a pit of fire and brimstone. I'd like to see a 2010 version with added SKE48, Momoiro Clover, and whatever groups Avex is promoting now. Because I know Korea has about a bucket load more of idol groups that have sprung up in the last year.

[eri]

[quote name='PQ' post='82752' date='Aug 9 2010, 04:52 PM']I was going to make this GIANT list of links for you but then while I was searching I found this very good video that pretty much shows every major Korean Idol group and Japanese Idol group side by side with a Music Video AND live performance. I highly recommend it. ;D[/quote]



I like this~ I learned that both countries...like to employ very pretty girls. Koreans seem to like looonnnggggggggggggg legs and Japanese seem to put higher premium on frilly outfits. Otherwise, they are pretty similar in terms of the music except that the Koreans songs seemed to employ rap on a more frequent basis. All of the groups are basically interchangeable haha.



As for the Japan side, I wished they put in non-H!P girl groups (aside from Perfume) but then again, I guess only H!P and AKB are really putting out girl groups these days.

[weoiq]

I have followed MM ever since I would say... 2003. I LOVED Morning Musume and never even looked at any other jpop girl groups. I made an effort to watch the original MM lineup auditions/singles/etc and go start to end where the group was at the time. Ever since about 2 years ago, though, I completely lost interest when H!M show was canceled, they never made tv show appearances anymore, and there were no more interesting members (for me personally). I always browse through MM-bbs just to see the new singles and who is graduating/comming in. Someone mentioned Snsd (Girls Generation) and it kind of made me interested. I started following them since 2008. I also started to get into other korean groups such as Kara, wonder girls, 4minute, etc



Talented, i think, might mean different things to different people. If you ask me who is more talented- pop group wise? I would say korean groups, overall. They have more intricate dance moves/choreography, better range of vocals, and more versatility when it comes to their "image". Most Japanese pop girl groups only do cute. Snsd for example has done cute concept http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pJOYUTybH4 sexy concept http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vATCRRcuC30 cool concept http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CDZKqvppVg&feature=fvst



here are some more great examples of good combination of singing/dancing by Korean pop groups



snsd live singing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SHC841KbWg



snsd dance battle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f5hg3FlYc4



snsd dance battle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEfIHxeY2JE



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlzqrvvdceY snsd dances to Michael jackson haha i thought this was very cool for a idol pop group



shinee "replay" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wT6YyxuL70



dbsk "mirotic" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_2yfWPZWJI







Snsd is my favorite group so I definitely put more examples of them :] I think kpop girl groups will be successful with Japanese girls for the "cool" factor.

[eri]

OOH LINKS. Thank you!



I want to know who this KARA group is. Apparently they made history by debuting #5 on Oricon recently.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='weoiq' post='83063' date='Aug 17 2010, 06:14 AM']snsd dance battle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f5hg3FlYc4[/quote]



That was my first SNSD video I ever saw !



It made me even like that Britney Spears song... I'm so easy to manipulate when pretty korean girls are involved.

[strawberryjam]

I'm only into older Kpop as well. My interest faded when SES went away. I'll get interested into SNSD cos they're cute and girly, but I can't stay interested. I like my idols untalented, next door type girls so I feel like I have a chance at being pretty. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> And besides the point of MM is to put girls in the starlight and watch them grow from being average to really cute and pretty entertaining girls.



Some songs I used to listen to when I was a kid... (note: they're cutesy songs. Not like today's Kpop that is realllly westernized)





Young Turks Club - Ashinayo

I never understood where this group got their name from, but it reminds me of an H!P like song.

Diva - Why Call Me

Girly pop song. I don't know any Korean whatsoever. It sounds like they're saying Rabie Love which always amused me.

Bijou - Love Love Mellow violin song, but with rapping. Oh Koreans!

[Shoujo Q]

[quote name='eri' post='83067' date='Aug 17 2010, 02:35 AM']OOH LINKS. Thank you!



I want to know who this KARA group is. Apparently they made history by debuting #5 on Oricon recently.[/quote]





Kara, I don't know much about. But I'll educate myself as I educate you! ;D



KARA debuted as a 4 member girl group marketed as the 2nd Fin.K.L by DSP Entertainment. (You can read the full Wiki version of their history here (As well as who the members are/were. I'll just post videos for ya!)



Their first album was The First Bloooooming and it was released in 2007. They promoted with Break It, Mame Deulmyeon, and Secret World (Live). It didn't gain much attention.



They released a mini-album in 2008 after losing a member and gaining 2. They had a totally different style with this mini-album, going into the cutesy route which was a totally different style from previous and used Rock U as their promotional single. It did okay.



Later that year they released Goodday Season 2 as a digital single. People were starting to take notice.



At the end of the 2008, Kara released their second mini-album, Pretty Girl which was their break-out album and was later released again in 2009 as a special version (Same album, but with remixes!). They had a MV for Pretty Girl and Honey. Honey was voted online to be their debut single for the mini-album, it was super effective!



In 2009, riding on the success of Pretty Girl, they released another digital single (Ttok Gateun Mam) for a mobile cellphone game. The song would later be on their 2nd full length album Revolution.



Revolution (Is my personal favorite album ever and I play it all the time!!!!), Wanna was the lead single and it showed Kara in a more sexy cute image. Mister was also promoted and became popular because of the booty dance portion. (Probably the same reason it's popular in Japan right now. No one loves nothing more then a booty dance!)



After that Wiki sorta fails me, but that's when I started to take note of Kpop so I can fill in some blanks myself! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



After they ended promotion for Revolution, they took a break, probably to get ready for their push into Japan, but before that they released their 3rd mini-album Lupin which brought about yet another image change similar to SNSD's Run Devil Run image change with Lupin. But they also promoted with Umbrella and went back to the cutesy style.





And that's all I can tell you about Kara! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />





Edit: Oh, forgot to mention. Like every other popular Kpop group at the time in 2010 they released a digital single for the FIFA World Cup, We're With you! And they were back with the cutesy style again.



Kara will be releasing their 4th Mini-album in September at some point after their promotion in Japan ends!

[surasshu]

KARA are a bunch of talentless harpies. That's all you really need to know.

[Shoujo Q]

G-Dragon (Of Big Bang) released a song with Teddy and CL of 2NE1 called The Leaders (Watch it Live Here) and you can't help but notice their little tongue and cheek jab at SNSD and other "Idol" groups.



They so cute actin' all hiphop.





I have no idea who Teddy is. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />





Out of all the girl groups though, 2NE1 is my fav and yet they release so little since they debuted! It's like waiting for the next damn Harry Potter book or something. D:



Here's a video of 2NE1 singing Rhianna's Take a Bow live. They can sing! ;D Watch -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsJNIKYrvVM



I hope their push into Japan is sucessfull like BigBang, who BTW I started to listen to over the past week. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> I have a new favorite group. AHAH! That makes 2 Korean Boy bands I like and 0 Japanese boy bands. ;D

[Pflaume]

You said the magic word (2NE1) to finally get me in this thread.



As a fan, I'm always annoyed by these big pushes into other countries. It just means I get to wait longer between releases.



That G-Dragon/CL thing really wasn't my style. 2NE1 isn't really rap to me... it's definitely influenced, but they tend to structure it differently than most girl groups. I kind of had to force myself to watch it to find the Gee reference. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> 5 minutes of YO, MY NAME CL. YEAH! YEAH! is too much.



And yeah, 2NE1 are pretty good singers. I'm really one of their fangirls mainly for their personalities, though. I love what's on the inside, see. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />



Re: Big Bang... I cannot get into boy groups. I can't do it. I have tried, and I have failed. Japanese, Korean, it doesn't matter. Sorry Sorry getting stuck in my head is as close to boy band fandom as I will ever come.

[surasshu]

Teddy Park is one of the more successful producers of Korean "hip-hop" at least within the mainstream (2NE1's "Fire" is his, for example). He is a member of 1TYM. He's worked with G-Dragon and Big Bang before ("Lollipop", a song that became #1 in Korea WITHOUT PROMOTION). This "Leaders" song has been around for a while, and in fact you can see Teddy and G-Dragon working on the song on GD's tv show.



I absolutely adore GD, his music is hit or miss but his personality is really great. He gets along with everybody, and is infectiously charming, and a total perfectionist (I don't think he was satisfied about ONE of his live performances of Heartbreaker).



Not a big fan of 2NE1 except for that they're really fun behind the scenes and seem like nice people.

[Shoujo Q]

[quote name='///' post='83569' date='Aug 22 2010, 06:51 PM']Teddy Park is one of the more successful producers of Korean "hip-hop" at least within the mainstream (2NE1's "Fire" is his, for example). He is a member of 1TYM. He's worked with G-Dragon and Big Bang before ("Lollipop", a song that became #1 in Korea WITHOUT PROMOTION). This "Leaders" song has been around for a while, and in fact you can see Teddy and G-Dragon working on the song on GD's tv show.[/quote]





So was THIS released after Lollipop became a hit? :x





And thanks for informing me who Teddy was! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lmfao:' />

[surasshu]

Yep! There was also a music video that came after the song was a huge hit already.

[Shoujo Q]

[quote name='///' post='83573' date='Aug 22 2010, 07:42 PM']Yep! There was also a music video that came after the song was a huge hit already.[/quote]



I'm not talking about the music video, I'm talking about the phone. Was the phone commercial done before or after the song was released? D:



Because it seems awfully genius of LG to just so happen to have this phone called a Lollipop and a hit song called Lollipop. Just sayin...

[surasshu]

Oh, maybe they didn't count that as promotion of the song? I don't know exactly, I just get my info from the Internet, it could be wrong. Maybe they just mean there wasn't any live performances and it wasn't pushed as a single/"main song"? IIRC the two Chocolate Love songs (f(x)/SNSD) weren't really promoted all that much either.

[Shoujo Q]

Had to go digging in the allkpop cave to find this. It was nasty stuff I tell you. Don't make me do it again! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... pyeyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lmfao:' />



Anyway, basically it says that the song was made for the commercial before 2NE1 even had it's name if you're to believe what AllKpop puts out and like the Chocolove songs, it was a digital release so it didn't get promoted until after the fact because it did become so popular, mainly because of 2NE1 I think. Read another story where they re-edited the MV to add in more shots of the girls. BigBang helped too I guess. ;D





But it was the full intent of the song to be used as a promotion for the phones, which btw are totally awesome to look at and I wish I had one. D: Promotion worked! GIMME A PHONE!



Edit: I'm going to prove you half right since they didn't perform the song live, but it was still promoted. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> So we're both right. \<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ohyeah.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />





Anyway, enough of that! Let us watch 4Minute being totally awesome and doing their very own rendition of Beyonce's Single Ladies. It's a Magical thing! And if you don't love the girls after watching this, you're a stone cold hearted person. That goes for anyone else lurking in this thread!