Happy Birthday Aika! And lets talk about wotas!

[al kusanagi]

So Aika just turned 18 in Japan. Yay!



But therein lies the problem with all the new members. Because Aika was even a couple of years younger than the rest, she couldn't get as much exposure because of child labor laws that didn't let her work as much/late as the others, plus still having school to worry about. Now that she's finally 18 her work related activities will pick up a whole lot and people may finally start appreciating her more.



However, now we have to start the cycle all over again with the new kids. Sure, they're cute, but people will soon get bored of that, and with no Hello Morning to showcase them all we'll get is the occasional TV appearance and DVD. As I said before about S/mileage, I would have never given a damn about them if Bijo Gaku hadn't showcased them every week.

[Miss Moonlight]

^ That is a very big problem. I got all excited about the 9th gen announcement and then realized immediately that even if they do have MM-revitalizing personalities, we'll probably never know about it. They're never going to sit starry-eyed in a line at a table between Taka and Nakai, struggling to get out where they're from and that maybe they like to eat dried plums, while the older girls get all whiny and antsy behind them. I know that's been too much to ask for a long time now, but SOMETHING would be nice. And if that something is Bijo Gaku, then Bijo Gaku needs to get a little more interesting. Even if they get their own segment there, it's not the same as seeing them interact with the other members.



This isn't just their problem. Someone posted a list of MM tenures after the recent graduation, and when I saw that JunJun and LinLin had been around longer than Yuko I thought NO WAY! But that's in real years. Yuko was around for like eleven billion exposure years.



Happy birthday Aika <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[eri]

[quote name='Miss Moonlight' post='91470' date='Jan 11 2011, 07:38 AM']eleven billion exposure years.[/quote]



<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> This is a perfect concept.



Eh, I don't know.



1. Exposure only became a problem with boring ass 5th generation. 4th gen was shy for a while but no would could stop the onslaught of personality once they personally loosened up -- and all while minors. I don't think Riho and Suzuki Kanon are going to sit still and squirm.



2. Was Aika's real problem her working hours or because she's Ms. 42%? Was it because the aggressive personalities of the other girls blocked her out or because everyone (other than Sayumi) was similarly coasting?



3. Even with the shrinking media exposure they have on tv, we have all kinds of new stuff we didn't have before (blogs, twitter). Sure, nothing beats 2002 era, hour long Hello Morning but what can you do?



edit:I forgot but, happy bday Aika!

[Gerald]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='91469' date='Jan 11 2011, 03:14 PM']But therein lies the problem with all the new members. Because Aika was even a couple of years younger than the rest, she couldn't get as much exposure because of child labor laws that didn't let her work as much/late as the others, plus still having school to worry about.[/quote]

I don't know if this makes sense as I don't know how Japanese TV works but if we assume MM are being rebuilt and rebranded then I guess it's no good aiming at the late-teen and older market, they will already be tied into groups/singers and are unlikely to change their allegiance. all you have are the current fans and wota.



Therefore you need to target the 10 to 15 year-old market and therefore you introduce four 10-14 year-old girls and with the possibility of more when Ai graduates if the 9th Gen prove successful. If that idea works you will be targetting TV etc. that younger kids watch which presumably are recorded/shown at earlier hours and if you do attract this type of audience presumably you shift the concerts to earlier times to suit the kids and their parents and that helps with the child labour laws.



Does that make sense?

[Milly]

You know they're doing something wrong when DVD magazines that only hardcore wota buy are generally more entertaining than the tv-show which will be watched by many more, even if it's late-night.



The best way to get new fans is to get a entertaining show in a decent time slot. At the moment there is hardly any way for the general public to know about H!P. AKB only got popular after they had a big media push (AKBingo, Mendol, Majisuka). It's such a shame that Berryz and C-ute have hardly had any primetime airtime since their debut.



Happy birthday Aika. You're a sweetheart, even though you don't add much to the group.

[Madara]

[quote name='The Turtle Moves' post='91474' date='Jan 12 2011, 02:18 AM'][quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='91469' date='Jan 11 2011, 03:14 PM']But therein lies the problem with all the new members. Because Aika was even a couple of years younger than the rest, she couldn't get as much exposure because of child labor laws that didn't let her work as much/late as the others, plus still having school to worry about.[/quote]

I don't know if this makes sense as I don't know how Japanese TV works but if we assume MM are being rebuilt and rebranded then I guess it's no good aiming at the late-teen and older market, they will already be tied into groups/singers and are unlikely to change their allegiance. all you have are the current fans and wota.



Therefore you need to target the 10 to 15 year-old market and therefore you introduce four 10-14 year-old girls and with the possibility of more when Ai graduates if the 9th Gen prove successful. If that idea works you will be targetting TV etc. that younger kids watch which presumably are recorded/shown at earlier hours and if you do attract this type of audience presumably you shift the concerts to earlier times to suit the kids and their parents and that helps with the child labour laws.



Does that make sense?

[/quote]



No.



No matter how many 10-to-14-year-old fans get hypothetically cultivated the way you describe, the concerts will still draw only mad, ravenous, fanatic wotas who will scare the shit out of any younger audience members. Parents won't take their kids to such events. Would YOU put your 10-to-14-year-old through that?



(In the U.S. it's a little different. Older male fans of the likes of Hannah Montana, Selena Gomez and Demi Lovato are scared to death of screaming ten-year-old-girls and their rampaging Baby Boomer moms and would never attend any of those concerts. Plus, the culture here strongly discourages that kind of visible fan demographic for young female pop acts, even if those acts dress and perform in a manner devised to precisely attract the dirty ol' man demographic. I've never quite understood this phenomenon.)

[al kusanagi]

Which is exactly why I hate wota. When I went to concerts around 2001-2004ish, before wota became the mass majority, you could find families, young, old, and the ratio would be a pretty equal male/female mix. Some places I went to concerts at even had a 2-1 female to male ratio.



But then as soon at the wota became like 75% of the audience, concerts stopped being fun and started to be annoying and I just started watching them on DVD for each tour unless it was a big concert like a graduation.

[Anderei]

I know I wouldn't ever go to a concert. No girl wants to be in the middle of a bunch of crazy, jumping guys, regardless of how old they are.





Also Happy Birthday Aika! May your hair be awkward and your chin be too long forever!





Sayumi obviously has no intentions of ever returning Aika to Reina. More Sayumi and Aika together would make my days forever.

[kira]

Happy birthday Aika!



I do hope H!P gets another show or just does more appearances in general, it'd be nice to see them on TV more. Another Hello Morning type show would be great.



[quote name='Madara' post='91488' date='Jan 11 2011, 08:46 PM']No matter how many 10-to-14-year-old fans get hypothetically cultivated the way you describe, the concerts will still draw only mad, ravenous, fanatic wotas who will scare the shit out of any younger audience members. Parents won't take their kids to such events. Would YOU put your 10-to-14-year-old through that?[/quote]



No wonder H!P has those women-only events... they should have kid-only events too.



On a somewhat related note, I think I remember reading somewhere (the H!O 9th gen audition thread?) that H!P acts are considered "pirate groups" in Japan now. Fans just download their music instead of buying CDs because they don't want to associate with the wota.



So in some weird way, the wota are possibly related to why sales dropped... <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... unsure.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> though they did make up for it by buying multiple copies of everything

[al kusanagi]

Not "some weird way," it's EXACTLY why their sales have dropped.



When I first moved to Japan and MM were national darlings, they were essentially "water cooler" talk where everyone I worked with knew the songs and had favorite members, and I'm talking entire faculties with ages from the 20s to 50s. But by 05 it was essentially social suicide to admit to liking them to non-fans

[Pucchi-Mo]

It's fine wota, buy 10 copies of your favorite H!P act's single, just shower a bit more often, and please. stop. dancing.

[momoirosaya]

[quote name='Madara' post='91488' date='Jan 11 2011, 12:46 PM']No matter how many 10-to-14-year-old fans get hypothetically cultivated the way you describe, the concerts will still draw only mad, ravenous, fanatic wotas who will scare the shit out of any younger audience members. Parents won't take their kids to such events. Would YOU put your 10-to-14-year-old through that?[/quote]

They have women, children, family only seating away from the wota.

Even in the AKB theater they have a women only section.

I think wota are a big problem in Japan (half joking XD), they even have women only sections on TV shows were groups perform.



What!? If that piracy thing is true then, Stupid wota <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> I don't want to be thought of badly because I like H!P!!

I'm going to have to order CD's on the internet forever now, which means I'll have to pay for shipping. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /noway.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':oiy:' /> Not cool.



EDIT: I'm sure most of them are okay, but when I went to AX to see AKB, me and my friend were scared of the wotas in the exhibition hall, although they were otaku wota....I just have negative memories of wota...

Also younger people like me, as many people pointed out, don't want to be surrounded by chanting, sweaty 40 year old wota at a concert <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/nono.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> (if I ended up in the wota section)

[alita87]

Wow, some of you clearly haven't been to concerts in a long time here. There are tons of girls now (about 30 percent at each conert, many teenagers), and there are also many kids and families. Lately you can't go to a concert without aww-ing over the mini-wotas in training (both boys and girls). So I don't get where this hatred for wota comes from. All of the wota I am friends with and have had interractions with at concerts are the nicest guys you have ever met. Yeah there are some asses, but most aren't. Even the older guys are just fun people who have devoted themselves to something that might not be reality but is still fun.



If wota are what are keeping you away from coming to a concert in Japan maybe you should reanalyze those prejudices and see what's really going on isn't the fans probably but people making assumptions about the fans.

[al kusanagi]

Or maybe you're just one of those filthy stinking bastards too.



Unless the entirety of wotadom changed in the last two years, and judging by the recent concert DVDs, they haven't, I reserve the right to hate those group destroying fucks. Maybe you're just still new to the whole concert thing and still blinded by the experience, but once you become a jaded veteran, you'll see just how much they're taking away from the experience.

[Shoujo Q]

Hey hey! This is about Aika's special day not wotas. D:



Back on topic or something close to it.



Takahashi made a sweet Aika post for her birthday. Reina on the other hand is disowning Aika now that she's BFF's with Sayu because she gave her former BFF no love.

[al kusanagi]

I happen to know for a fact that Aika asked for a flamethrower to thin out the wota ranks for her birthday, so it's totally on topic.

[Farrah]

I really think H!P should start holding a few U-18 only events. I think they'll see many more young, female fans coming out of the wood work. No one wants their kids around a bunch of jumping, chanting, smelling-like-ball-sweat 40+ men who sleep with their body pillow of Maimai every night. I think people would be much more comfortable going if to a U-18 concert. I know I've seen jrock bands hold male-only/female-only 18+/-18 concerts, so I don't see why H!P shouldn't make a habit of it, too.



The fact is, if you have to have a women's only section at your concert just for people to feel remotely comfortable, well, that's a problem in and of it's own. But, you know, baby steps, baby steps. . .

[Milly]

[quote name='alita87' post='91513' date='Jan 12 2011, 03:19 AM']Wow, some of you clearly haven't been to concerts in a long time here. There are tons of girls now (about 30 percent at each conert, many teenagers), and there are also many kids and families.[/quote]

That's not what this recent concert footage suggests. Blaming everything on wota is unfair though, what with all the mismanagement going on at UFA. And I'm sure not all wota are loud, smelly and bad-mannered, but those who are (a small minority?) ruin it for the rest. I agree that they should do female-only concerts from time to time.



[quote name='PKyu' post='91518' date='Jan 12 2011, 04:08 AM']Reina on the other hand is disowning Aika now that she's BFF's with Sayu because she gave her former BFF no love.[/quote]

Reina post. Aika is finally center!

[al kusanagi]

[quote name='Milly' post='91535' date='Jan 12 2011, 04:17 AM'][quote name='PKyu' post='91518' date='Jan 12 2011, 04:08 AM']Reina on the other hand is disowning Aika now that she's BFF's with Sayu because she gave her former BFF no love.[/quote]

Reina post. Aika is finally center!

[/quote]



Sayu posted Happy Birthday at 12 am. Lazy ass Reina didn't even manage one until 2 pm the next day. And since then Sayu has made 2 more Aika birthday posts.



To quote a classic, "You know the name of the game. Yo' bitch chose me."

[Madara]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='91519' date='Jan 12 2011, 01:14 PM']I happen to know for a fact that Aika asked for a flamethrower to thin out the wota ranks for her birthday, so it's totally on topic.[/quote]



I hope that's included as an extra on the next concert DVD.

[alita87]

Well you guys can think what you want, I just don't think you should be a fan of the group if you hate its main fanbase. This is just what idol groups are like. Trust me there are tons of girls there nowadays, they just blend in or choose to be back further because many cosplay. And when I say many I mean that at the last Musume release event I saw about 10 cosplayers (half Reina) and at the recent New Years show 20 plus (again half Reina). There was even someone in one of Aika's outfits to make this more on topic. Aika is finally finding her own among the fans, though for the female fanbase Reina and Eri have always dominated.



Wota are stinky because if you are up in that front section you know how hot it is, hence the fact that most carry the spray deodorant and douse it after the concert/change.

Just because a small percentage are rude doesn't make that the norm, and people here in Japan need to see that too. Johnny's is the same way with 40 year old female fans, they are the reason that several of my JH boys say they love Arashi but would never go to a concert. People are just blinded by what they want to believe instead of jumping into a situation like wota-only karaoke sessions and realizing "Hey, everyone here is a lot of fun!"



And by the way, I have been going to concerts for almost five years down so I am not that new to it, just new to understanding the wota. And yes, I am one of them. I am not ashamed of my fandom nor do I want the fandom to change.



Wow, hard to believe Aika is 18. It seems like just yesterday she was added and now she is all grown up. She has finally blossomed into her own character and is a really fun girl. I look forward to seeing her interactions with the new girls.

[momoirosaya]

^

I don't hate wota, part of me is amazed at how much they support the girls, the other is kinda really afraid of them <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hahaha.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hahaha:' />

Plus I hear all these awful stories about wota from people, but I know they aren't all that way, it's how some bad people in one group tarnish the entire group because of their actions or whatever.

EDIT: But I'm not a fan of WOTA, I'm a fan of MOMUSU, so it doesn't matter whether I like them or not.

Uggghhh I don't want to offend wotas but I also am not a wota-lover and they scare me.........<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' />

[eri]

<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /lmfao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hahaha:' /> I couldn't understand why a birthday thread kept getting so many replies. I can't believe you guys are arguing about wota all over Aika's bday thread!



[quote name='alita87' post='91578' date='Jan 12 2011, 03:21 PM']I just don't think you should be a fan of the group if you hate its main fanbase.[/quote]



I thought being a fan of Morning Musume meant that you were a fan of the girls and the music. Whew! Good thing to know that I can be honest and say I'm really a fan of sweaty, hostile wota #142 waving the glow stick and screaming "AIIIII-CHAAANNNNN" over the music <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... stling.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' />



But seriously alita, just because Al likes to state one extreme doesn't mean it makes sense to swerve all the way to the other.



Anyway, Aika seems like she's always been 12...or 35. I can't tell. It is really weird to think she is a teenager for some reason.

[strawberryjam]

[quote name='alita87' post='91578' date='Jan 12 2011, 04:21 PM']Well you guys can think what you want, I just don't think you should be a fan of the group if you hate its main fanbase.[/quote]

I also <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /lmfao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' /> at this... Sorry alita, but I'm tired of your posts telling us how to be fans. If I don't find any of the girls left interesting, then I CAN stop being a fan. I'm not gonna force myself to like someone new! Oh and I guess I should stop liking MM completely now cos I don't like the fans? Man... Thanks! I might as well quit the bbs and close the whole place down!



This thread needs to be split in some way... HELP <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hahaha:' />

[aine]

[quote name='eri' post='91586' date='Jan 13 2011, 12:03 AM']<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /lmfao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' /> I couldn't understand why a birthday thread kept getting so many replies. I can't believe you guys are arguing about wota all over Aika's bday thread![/quote]

It's Al's fault! It's also the most attention worthy bday thread ever, so all is good. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hahaha:' />



[quote name='alita87' post='91578' date='Jan 12 2011, 03:21 PM']I just don't think you should be a fan of the group if you hate its main fanbase.[/quote]

Thanks for sharing. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... smooch.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='=3=' /> But I'd appreciate if you wouldn't tell me whether I'm a good fan or not or how to be one.



I don't know how to word what I want to say without sounding mean and condescending, but maybe one day you will realise how disastrous this "main fanbase" is for MM's chances of ever becoming mainstream again. It may be hard to realise when seeing things from a devoted fan's point of view, but no socially "normal" person will ever admit liking a group that is associated with such a socially embarrassing and unacceptable group as wota. Especially in Japan, where social stigma runs strong.



BTW, I had close encounters with real wotas only twice, during MM and AKB concerts in Paris. The Japanese wotas that travelled all the way to see a poor quality (by the standards of what they can see in Japan) concert actually stroke me as rather cultural and respectful. It was the western fat white wannabe wotas that were going full retard spewing their fake wotaness everywhere and making me want to murder them with cold blood. But I imagine a typical Japanese person sees their wotas just like we westerners see the weeaboos, narutards etc.



That was my Captain Obvious moment for tonight, thanks for reading. I'm sure others can elaborate more and better on the subject.

[Pucchi-Mo]

[quote name='alita87' post='91578' date='Jan 12 2011, 06:21 PM']Well you guys can think what you want, I just don't think you should be a fan of the group if you hate its main fanbase.[/quote]



Good idea, let's just stop caring about Morning Musume like the rest of Japan did. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' />



Also, this is MM-BBS, the BBS that hates the H!P fans in almost all other forums.

Why should Japanese fans get a free pass? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hahaha:' />



P.S. Happy Birthday Aika, we got you a bitchfest! The traditional present for an 18 year old.

[eri]

[quote name='CO2 Blasted Idols' post='91599' date='Jan 12 2011, 07:50 PM'][quote name='alita87' post='91578' date='Jan 12 2011, 06:21 PM']Well you guys can think what you want, I just don't think you should be a fan of the group if you hate its main fanbase.[/quote]



Good idea, lets just stop caring about Morning Musume like the rest of Japan did. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' />

[/quote]



All joking aside, I think that is ultimately the nefarious goal of psycho fans of anything, anywhere.



They think they are the #1 fans and have a private, personal relationship with their idols. They find other fans to be in the way and/or unworthy for not being "true" fans. A star's decreasing mass popularity only encourages and raises the frightening kind of fan obsessiveness. In a sick, self-destructive way the obsessive fan wants to bring the star down and always has some weird intense love-hate relationship going on with their idol. You can see the same tendencies anywhere -- Twihards or celebrity stalkers or whatever.



I do think wota exude that degree of devotion because they are so proud of the way they alienate the public from "their" idol. They actually don't give a shit about the idol and/or her success as long as she exists "for them" and they can carry the fantasy that "they alone" establish the star's longevity. It really reminds me of the way Twilight fans aggressively swarm Rob Pattison related things. They don't care that their fandom might actually ruin his career or that he's become an embarrassing sex icon for repressed middle aged women. They are eager to hate on others who don't share their obsession. They might be nice people one on one but as a collective, they sure are a horrible self-serving bunch.

[Pflaume]

Happy birthday, Aika.

[neshcom]

[quote name='Plum' post='91602' date='Jan 12 2011, 10:42 PM']Happy birthday, Aika.[/quote]

BONER KILLER ALERT.



"Hi Kashi-" NOPE.AVI.GIF.TGA.WAV

[momoirosaya]

[quote name='Plum' post='91602' date='Jan 12 2011, 07:42 PM']Happy birthday, Aika.[/quote]

This is EXACTLY what creeps me out about wota.