New KSS Unit :: Tsubaki Factory (つばきファクトリー)

[Noa]

I never understood people who when a new generation came in said they didn't really care about H!P anymore but now I am that person because I don't even care enough to learn the girls names in either factory.

[Farrah]

It's funny people are saying they all seem rather indistinct / non-stand out because I was just talking to a friend not long ago about how it seems the new generation of wota must be into that, because it seems like idol groups (even old ones like AKB and Momusu) have been increasingly going for that aesthetic.  It feels like having some major stand out quality (a certain look, a certain voice, or a certain personality) used to be a huge prerequisite for being in an idol group but lately they're going so girl next door that they start to feel like... every girl next door.  Group after group after group full of girls with below average talent, honor student personalities and identically long, natural black hair.  That said, I'm intrigued to see what they do.  The idea of an ex-idol helping cast an idol group is always interesting to me.

[JPope]

[quote="Farrah"]
Group after group after group full of girls with below average talent, honor student personalities and identically long, natural black hair. 
[/quote]
 
Yeah, who'd have thunk that Asami Konno would become the template for the Japanese idol industry?
 
Would Maki Goto have a place in an idol group today? How about Miki Fujimoto?

[Haru]

Perhaps it's a difference in opinions, but I wouldn't say every new H!P girl is "below average talent," or has "identically long, natural black hair."
There's a few points we gotta think about here; the first being most of these girls are middle, or entry level high school; and a lot of schools aren't permitting dyed hair.
 
Another thing too is, every other group started out pretty homely looking too? I mean, let's think about this. Here's the most recent example...

Spoiler: [+]

The only thing that really stands out, at least in my opinion, with Juice=Juice is Sayubee's chipmunk cheeks, and Karin's gigantic as hell eyes. Nothing else really strikes me as special about these girls.

Spoiler: [+]

S/mileage was another example. Save for Kanyon looking like a miniature Eri here, nothing really strikes me special about this group. I'd probably download the single because of cute artwork.

Let's also not mention how totally homely ninth and tenth gen looked prior to their premiere. To some, they still do; and to others there's that one girl that's totally knock your socks off gorgeous.

You also have to think too that nearly every idol of the past had their own faults. Iida Kaori had a nice voice to a lot of people, but her dancing was quite subpar. Sayumi really wasn't 100% great at ANYTHING, but she ended up being one of the most loved girls in H!P.

I think with the recent girls, give them a bit of time to come into their own and it'll probably get better. So far, Kobushi has only had one DVD indies single and a play with Maasa. That's not really too much to work with. And with Tsubaki, we really don't even know how they sound outside of old recordings. Who knows how they have improved?
I can see standouts in the other girls already, personally. Sasaki Rikako has an INCREDIBLE stage presence, and Murota is a good singer. Makino seems quite natural pretty already at fourteen and has already been doing some modeling, and Nonaka will probably turn into the next Ayaka.

tl;dr opinions are like belly buttons and beauty is in the eye of the beholder and no idol is 100% perfect but if you feel that attraction to them, they probably are

[yuzuriha]

Everyone's opinions really are different.  Because I think Tomoko and Saki are just GORGEOUS in those pictures, and Yuuka and Sayuki adorable.

[Anderei]

I don't think stage presence makes up for a lack of ability, but that's not really a discussion I want to do depth. I think a lot of the new girls since 2011 are getting a huge pass from fans because they're cute. A lot of fans who couldn't stand previously untalented members or bragged that the standard for talent is what set H!P apart from other groups. And Kaori not being able to dance is different because back then I felt like they were primarily singers first and the idol thing came later. Nowadays, girls dance because they can't sing.


Also I think 4-nin S/mileage in that photo looked a lot more polished than a lot of girls do now. I don't think they were ever intended to be homely transformation girls.

[al kusanagi]

Captain put together this group, and Miya announced she's putting together one of her own on that new Green Room show. I think it's less about new "official" HP groups, and more of a training/management exercise for the new UF staff/ex-Berryz members.

[Solarblade]

Miya and Chii are planning new groups....so manyyyyyy its like 2003-2004 busy again it seems

[arcobaleno]

Gotou would probably be considered "too sexy" for a standard idol group, with her appearance, style of singing, and general... aura... thingy. Most idol groups now seem to go for the ~~~pure~~~ next-door girl look, and while Gotou did kind of have it as first, she just had a natural sort of mature aura to her, which really bloomed as she grew older and more into herself.
 
Miki... has a really strong personality which would make for hilarity (like it did), but she wouldn't be docile or "cute" enough unless they taught her to be fake, and knowing Miki, I highly doubt she'd ever take that shit, haha. I believe she liked being an idol then, but I don't think, if she was of idol-able age nowadays, that someone with her sort of personality would want to be an idol, with the "standards" they have now. She'd probably want to be an artist more.
 
I mean, as it is, H!P is really falling into that "honor student personality", with the same hair, same sort of looks thing. Take Ogata Haruna. When she first joined, if fans asked her to make funny faces and be the dork she is, she'd tell them that staff forbade it. They tried to mold her into this docile, "cute", quiet girl, but that didn't work out, so they eventually relented, and now she's, for the most part, allowed to be herself.
 
This really makes me sad, since H!P NEVER cared about that sort of thing. Everyone was allowed to show their personality (or lack thereof), and grow into their own characters, but now, only a chosen few are given that opportunity. You used to be able to tell a lot of the girls just by their TV appearances and the like, but nowadays, only the same few (Ikuta, Zukkini, Harunan) really ever stand out. Ikuta just has her "I want attention!!!1!!!11" thing, Zukki has her pocchari/chubby character, and Harunan is the only one of them who really knows how to talk and be good on these kind of shows.
 
You only get to see their personalities on their blog, and even then, they're still not allowed full reign to do what they want. After a while, their personalities just start to run together because the idol industry is so damn focused on making everyone as... well... bland as possible, because that's the new BIG THING OMG.
 
I've always thought of H!P as a different sort of idol group. They started out with MM, who were just "rejects" from a rock vocalist audition. That's a pretty damn unusual start for an idol group. From the beginning, I believe they were always focused on singing talent and the like. 2nd gen proved this since they were all pretty damn good singers, and could harmonize and do background vocals extremely well.
 
They had an adult-like, mature image at first. I think it was the addition of Gotou that changed that a bit. With someone as young as her in the group, they still could've gone on with the mature image, but they decided to go for a more cheerful, goofy as shit image, and so LOVE Machine was born, and of course, we all know it skyrocketed MM to stardom.
 
After that, goofy, dorky and crazy was MM's thing for years and years. They added a steady stream of girls who could generally suit that, or, if they didn't, they could at least sing or do something to make up for it. 4th gen was entirely personality, from Yossie and her boyish character, Charmy and her buckets of, well, charm, and the Two Tops crazy as shit antics. These 4, with the exception of Rika, could all sing decently-ish as well. But hell, even Rika made her bad singing into a bit of a charm point, like Sayu did.
 
5th gen came with Gaki (who seems to be loved or hated), who fulfilled the role of "hyper as shit personality", Ai who was, well, bland in personality, but had damn good vocal chops, Mako who had charm to her as well as good singing... and.... Konno, who, while I think she's cute, is just like a really random choice. I think she was chosen because she seemed determined or something, but she never really grew into a role within the group.
 
Then came 6th, who were all really good singers save Sayu, but also had personality. You had badass, won't-take-no-shit Miki, with her great singing voice and vibrato, Reina, who started off as yankee punk queen and turned into frilly giant bow queen (with underlying yankee-ness) who had great vocal chops, too, even if not as good as Miki, Eri, who was shy at first, but opened up (most likely with her friendship with Sayu), allowed her personality to shine through, and had very nice singing chops, and then Sayu, who was the complete dark horse, but was shrewdly learning things from Charmy and taking notes herself on what to do, and eventually she developed one of the most well-known (and hated) characters in all of idol-dom and was near-solely responsible for keeping MM in the know (as little as they were) during Platinum Era.
 
Then of course came Koharu, but she also brought publicity to MM with Kirarin, and she had her crazy, over the top (annoying-y) personality, so she did things for the group and fit in.
 
8th is where things really started to go downhill. Aika was brought in, an average girl with low talent and barely detectable personality, which didn't really fit it as anything. Except maybe the new Konno or something, I don't know. Then JunLin came in, pretty much as a publicity stunt, which most likely DID work at first, but they never allowed them enough spotlight to actually DO anything, so they were ignored, which really sucks since LinLin had buckets of singing talent.
 
During this time, they were still allowed to show their personalities and such, but no one ever really tried hard to do anything except Sayu.
 
I think it was MM's comeback with 9th and 10th and One-Two-Three that started UFP into changing H!P and how things worked for newer girls and newer groups. Older members like Sayu were too well-known (and brought so much publicity) that they couldn't just be like "oh, hey, Sayu, become docile and meek and bland, please", but they sure as hell could try that on new members, UNLESS said members had too strong a personality and couldn't be reined in, e.g. Ogata.
 
Anyway, I think my point in this giant, long-winded post is just to say that no, Gotou and Miki probably wouldn't have a place in an idol group nowadays. I've heard of groups that have many members, but are more artist-y. (Apparently "peformance groups") I think those two would flourish in those type of groups more than your typical idol one nowadays.
 
H!P used to be something different, a bombastic combo of both the singing/dancing talent of performance groups, and the personality, charm, looks, costumes, etc, of the idol group. Now, they're shifting away from the performance side in favor of becoming 100% idol. For people who really love that, it's probably wonderful, but for ones who love how UFP used to run things with H!P, it's just jarring and a bit sad because it really is true that things are losing a lot of charm, personality and talent as time goes on.
 
So anyway, about this group, I can't really say I'm excited since they all look bland right now (and I really don't like the Factory in their name; I feel like using a related word or synonym would've been cuter to "tie" them together), but yet I am interested to see what they bring, both in personality, and in musical style and talent.
 
It's likely that some of you may get fed up with JPope and Farrah criticizing how H!P is nowadays and are like "oh my god just go listen to other people, then", but they come from a time when H!P HAD talent, put stock into it, and, for the most part, showed it off, along with the idol side of it. For them, seeing this happen, H!P becoming blander and blander, with less and less talent, it's pretty disappointing for them, I think.
 
I don't feel what they feel quite as strongly, but I get their disappointment.
 
(I hope that wasn't too disjointed, my thoughts kinda just flew out as I typed.)

[Meikochi]

[quote="Solarblade"]
Miya and Chii are planning new groups....so manyyyyyy its like 2003-2004 busy again it seems
[/quote]
 
Why 2003-2004 ? At that time there were a lot of temporary groups only, right (minus Berryz) ?

 

[momoirosaya]

I mean I'm happy for all the KSS getting to debut, but 2 more new groups? That's a lot. But surely none of these new groups are going to be under Tsunku. Hopefully they still keep that H!P spirit. I feel like we need a terrible crazy song from someone...


C-ute, MM, Angerme, JJ, CG, Kobushi, and now Tsubaki.

That's 7 groups. 2 more and they're bring it to 9. Woah. I hope one of them is at least just 2-4 members. Still hoping for another anime tie in group. :/


Well if Kobushi is going to do cool songs that come at you like a fist, maybe Tsubaki will focus more on ballad songs.


If anyone's going to debut in a group next, it will have to include at least one of these girls: Kaga, Reina, Ruru, and Musubu. New girls that have been getting some attention are Onoda Saori, Horie Kizuki, and Takase Kurumi.

[kira]

Because I don't know any KSS, when I saw this group all I could think was "hm I wonder if Ruru's in it" and that's only because those on this forum familiar with KSS keep talking about her. I don't know how well it's going to go though, they would need to be really amazing to be able to break out from all of the idol group saturation, and I just can't see it happening with the way UFA is managing idols these days.
 
I might just be too familiar with Johnny's system of debut (and their management system/popularity level is different), but why don't the KSS have KSS units and grow popularity that way before they get debut? (Though I guess UFA stopped bothering with indies singles.)
 
Also in regards to acro's rant -- I remember when I first started liking Momoclo, it was because they were all so interesting. I think Platinum gen was good and bad for MM, but this gen it's like I can't really tell them apart without the member colours. The only new member I know by face is Maria and that's because someone I follow on tumblr really likes her.

[Anderei]

That's probably what their singles are for. I can't see the company putting effort into KSS groups these days.


The one thing that sucks about having so many groups is that it means everyone releases less. Watch the next MM single not come out until October or something.

[TicTacAnyone]

Wait so if Saki chose Tsubaki Faactory, did "staff" just choose Kobushi Factory? And Miya and Chii... I almost feel if someone as vocally talented as Miya is "putting together a group," that Ruru would have to be in it Q_Q
But then it's kind of like... what is the future of these groups? Should we be glad our KSS girls are being chosen for these groups? Are they simply training groups or will they debut? Will one debut and not another? How will H!P function with Tsunku having no voice, and making, like, possibly over 20 songs a year? (Not including albums, if any get released.) I *don't* understand the reasoning the company has behind all of this..... Is it simply more goods=more money? More groups=More possible chartings? More concerts? 
 
I don't get it.
 
I feel the company has already sort of shown they can't handle too many things at once, and now all of a sudden they want to add so much more? So many more MVs, concerts, goods, promotions, managers, etc?

[Haru]

Staff chose Kobushi, from my understanding.

[momoirosaya]

Well hopefully we'll be getting at least one release a month now?? H!P needs to fix their single schedule up now so this dry spell doesn't last too long.
 
I feel like they gave Saki, Miya, and Chii groups just to give them something to do.

[Anderei]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TicTacAnyone" data-cid="187634" data-time="1430423980">
Wait so if Saki chose Tsubaki Faactory, did "staff" just choose Kobushi Factory? And Miya and Chii... I almost feel if someone as vocally talented as Miya is "putting together a group," that Ruru would have to be in it Q_Q

But then it's kind of like... what is the future of these groups? Should we be glad our KSS girls are being chosen for these groups? Are they simply training groups or will they debut? Will one debut and not another? How will H!P function with Tsunku having no voice, and making, like, possibly over 20 songs a year? (Not including albums, if any get released.) I *don't* understand the reasoning the company has behind all of this..... Is it simply more goods=more money? More groups=More possible chartings? More concerts?


I don't get it.


I feel the company has already sort of shown they can't handle too many things at once, and now all of a sudden they want to add so much more? So many more MVs, concerts, goods, promotions, managers, etc?</blockquote>
I'm pretty sure they're not just 'training' groups and that a major debut is the plan. I also don't think they're gonna just totally let the Berryz girls take the reins because being a former idol doesn't make you a good manager and you wouldn't want a total newbie managing a group but the more I type the more I can see UFF doing that.


As for why so much at once, even though they haven't really gained a lot of mainstream popularity, I think they're still trying to cash in on H!P's recent increase in success. Plus I don't see C-ute lasting much longer under the H!P umbrella.

[Shoujo Q]

I can see, now that Tsunku has no voice, he'll have a lot he wants to say and use the H!P girls to do it. I'm sure writing lyrics is easy for him, it's the producing of the music where UF will need to get creative. 

[Derby]

I'm kind of confused right now. So you are saying Miyabi and Chinami are doing the same as Captain and they will help with the creation of 2 groups? is that for real??
And will they be 'factory' groups too? This is just.. idk
 
They had 5 chances to add Ruru and Kaede to a group, I hope they will do it this time... Also for Musubu who I remember had a strong voice singing Rock Erotic

[Shoujo Q]

From my understanding Miya's group is one that's going to involve her, like Reina. As for Chinami, I don't think even she really knows what she wants to do yet. Again, this is all heresay. But it's the basic rundown of what was said.

[TicTacAnyone]

I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread~~
 
I'm rewatching Green Room and all.... Are we sure Miyabi isn't making a group for herself so she can continue being an artist???

[Shoujo Q]

Isn't that what I just said? XD

[TicTacAnyone]

[quote="Shoujo Q"]
Isn't that what I just said? XD
[/quote]
 
Oh no, yeah, it totally is... I just posted it in the Tsubaki Factory thread at first before you had said something here and then I realized once you and others were commenting on it here that I was in the wrong thread... SO I posted it in here lol. Makes it a little disjointed since I just copied pasted but XD

[Haru]

I don't know if that's the case but I don't have any problems with it.

[Elpis]

With all these new groups, it makes me wonder about the quality of everyone's releases. I'm assuming there will be less with 9 groups to deal with, but will some groups that are better liked/ big sellers get the better budgets?

[Anderei]

Well, C-ute gets better MVs than MM (imo although it's not like C-ute's are masterpieces either) so I wouldn't say popularity = budget. And outfits are just a total toss up.

[momoirosaya]

Here are some videos of the older members for those that are unfamiliar with them. Risa's got some stuff out there too, but no solo's although I didn't dig deep.
 
2013 KSS Interview Kisora
OPV of Kisora
Kisora - Daisuki 100 Manten (2014 KSS Test)
 
2013 KSS Interview of Riko
Riko - Aitai Aitai Aitai na (2014 KSS Test)
Riko - Kono Machi (2013 KSS Test)
 
2013 KSS Interview of Yumeno
Yumeno - REAL LOVE (2014 KSS Test)
Yumeno - Waratte YOU! (2013 KSS Test)
 

[Noa]

Yumeno isn't horrible, but Riko is awful and Kisora isn't much better.

[momoirosaya]

^Kisora had improved based on her solo lines in the new KSS album. But I agree with you about Riko.


Yumeno and Ogata are probably going to be the strongest singers in this group.

[Anderei]

That's... not promising lol. Maybe Ami will be good.