UEE was in this recently. I don't think it did very well but work is work, I know some of my friends were watching it at least LOL.
Yeah, losing/gaining members just does not go over well with Korean audiences. I honestly think the graduation concept was just tacked on for AS once they started losing members. Perhaps if it had been better planned it would have worked but I doubt it. I honestly think AS were just a little before their time. They debuted with a sexy concept at a time when pretty much no girl groups were having success with that, I believe KARA and SNSD were still doing relatively youthful concepts during that era. There was a huge demand for sexy concepts from girl groups in 2013-2014 that really skyrocketed the success of groups like AOA and Girl's Day that weren't doing so hot. AOA may not be huge yet but at least they've got people interested now. It's funny how differently the Korean and Japanese idol industries function.
Post-MM careers and soloists
Moderators: testacles_4, Shoujo Q, momoirosaya
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
They were but Hyuna and BEG did sexy stuff not long after (and T-ara had the sexy version of Bo peep get 19+ I think) so I think it was just a multitude of reasons. Diva was pushing it at the time but I don't remember there being backlash. People just weren't interested in the original members and most of the new girls didn't really change that. Kaeun is lucky I remember her name.
Oh and Genie was just six months later! omg it was such a long time ago.
Oh and Genie was just six months later! omg it was such a long time ago.
Last edited by Anderei on Fri May 08, 2015 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
Yeah, but Ah felt kind of out of place / not on trend LOL not to mention really cheap. Ah, what a different time.
Not sure I'd call Bo Beep a sexy concept - I don't even think the video would have gotten 19+ in 2015 and the outfits/song were verging on cutesy to me. Kitty ears and whatnot.
I feel like Seventeen are a huge mistake, I can't imagine how Pledis plan to be able to pay that many members LOL especially considering how much less Korean groups tend pull than Japanese groups in terms of revenue since so much of the market is focused on piracy and digital downloads. Korean MP3 sites sell songs for less than a dollar. It's like, 80% of why Korean groups go to Japan.
To get back on topic, yeah, I don't know. I'm not saying showing some personality would skyrocket MM to stardom - I think they're too far gone for that. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't think it's a shame how boring this new "honor student" style of idol is. And in terms of careers, well, no one's going to build a variety career on an honor student aura - I don't think any of them are trying to anyway. But it's a shame. That sort of drive to get noticed and stand out seems completely nonexistent in the current era.
Not sure I'd call Bo Beep a sexy concept - I don't even think the video would have gotten 19+ in 2015 and the outfits/song were verging on cutesy to me. Kitty ears and whatnot.
I feel like Seventeen are a huge mistake, I can't imagine how Pledis plan to be able to pay that many members LOL especially considering how much less Korean groups tend pull than Japanese groups in terms of revenue since so much of the market is focused on piracy and digital downloads. Korean MP3 sites sell songs for less than a dollar. It's like, 80% of why Korean groups go to Japan.
To get back on topic, yeah, I don't know. I'm not saying showing some personality would skyrocket MM to stardom - I think they're too far gone for that. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't think it's a shame how boring this new "honor student" style of idol is. And in terms of careers, well, no one's going to build a variety career on an honor student aura - I don't think any of them are trying to anyway. But it's a shame. That sort of drive to get noticed and stand out seems completely nonexistent in the current era.
Last edited by Farrah on Fri May 08, 2015 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
Someone mentioned it before, maybe you? About for a lot of girls it being a part time thing, especially since the majority seem to come from well off families. Arama did an interview with a foreign girl who was in a smaller idol group and she said a lot of them basically did it just like that and had other jobs on the side. The girls in Kago's group had part time jobs and someone from BiS left to LOOK for a job. I'm sure a lot of girls use it as a stepping stone but most people will peak within their group. Even the popular AKB girls are graduating and just becoming one more entertainer.
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
[quote="Anderei"]
Someone mentioned it before, maybe you? About for a lot of girls it being a part time thing, especially since the majority seem to come from well off families. Arama did an interview with a foreign girl who was in a smaller idol group and she said a lot of them basically did it just like that and had other jobs on the side. The girls in Kago's group had part time jobs and someone from BiS left to LOOK for a job. I'm sure a lot of girls use it as a stepping stone but most people will peak within their group. Even the popular AKB girls are graduating and just becoming one more entertainer.
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True but all three of those examples come from indie groups. Most of them are working as idols for the fun of it more than anything, it's like one or two steps above being in a cover band. I think if more of them were using it as a stepping stone... we'd probably get a much more interesting group LOL. When everyone is nice and cozy where they are, they stagnate.
Someone mentioned it before, maybe you? About for a lot of girls it being a part time thing, especially since the majority seem to come from well off families. Arama did an interview with a foreign girl who was in a smaller idol group and she said a lot of them basically did it just like that and had other jobs on the side. The girls in Kago's group had part time jobs and someone from BiS left to LOOK for a job. I'm sure a lot of girls use it as a stepping stone but most people will peak within their group. Even the popular AKB girls are graduating and just becoming one more entertainer.
[/quote]
True but all three of those examples come from indie groups. Most of them are working as idols for the fun of it more than anything, it's like one or two steps above being in a cover band. I think if more of them were using it as a stepping stone... we'd probably get a much more interesting group LOL. When everyone is nice and cozy where they are, they stagnate.
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
Well most of MM are rich girls from nice families from what I can tell. Even if they just go onto doing the usual OG stuff they'll probably be okay. I don't mean they use it as a stepping stone in a particularly ambitious way. The unpopular girls probably don't see the point because they're used to being the backdrop and a lot of the popular girls are pushed from day one so they lack ambition in a different way. Girls come in with a different mindset now. It's not 1998 where they were a bunch of losers who didn't like each other all that much lol.
Small indie groups still make up the majority so I think the part time thing is interesting. Groups like AKB and MM and MomoClo where a lot of girls are in it for the long haul are still the minority. And probably will stay that way because I think idols are starting to go back out of focus a bit.
Small indie groups still make up the majority so I think the part time thing is interesting. Groups like AKB and MM and MomoClo where a lot of girls are in it for the long haul are still the minority. And probably will stay that way because I think idols are starting to go back out of focus a bit.
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
It's true, most of the girls are from pretty well-off families (although I read somewhere that Ayumi's family is kind of poor? But that was 2ch gossip so who knows). That sort of thing probably does contribute to the lack of grassroots feel these days.
To be fair, AKB48 actually started a part-time member thing where girls actually perform as idols for minimum wage LOL. It's totally crazy but kind of an interesting idea.
http://aramajapan.com/news/music/akb48-opens-applications-for-part-time-member-10-hourly-wage/5782/
To be fair, AKB48 actually started a part-time member thing where girls actually perform as idols for minimum wage LOL. It's totally crazy but kind of an interesting idea.
http://aramajapan.com/news/music/akb48-opens-applications-for-part-time-member-10-hourly-wage/5782/
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
I think Ayumi's family is working class but the poor thing is a joke.
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
Isn't Mizuki's family loaded? I remember her talking once about how much food they'd buy when they ordered out and was kind of amazed LOL. I imagine Riho's family has to be well off too since she's been in all those fancy dance classes since she was little.
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
[quote="Farrah"]
Isn't Mizuki's family loaded? I remember her talking once about how much food they'd buy when they ordered out and was kind of amazed LOL. I imagine Riho's family has to be well off too since she's been in all those fancy dance classes since she was little.
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Yeah from what I've heard, Mizuki's family is preetty well off. I think within the 12th gen Maria and Akane are higher up than Miki and Haa-chin.... During one of the 12ki radio shows HaaChel mentions how the other two had taken a taxi (and often do) while those two take the train haha
Isn't Mizuki's family loaded? I remember her talking once about how much food they'd buy when they ordered out and was kind of amazed LOL. I imagine Riho's family has to be well off too since she's been in all those fancy dance classes since she was little.
[/quote]
Yeah from what I've heard, Mizuki's family is preetty well off. I think within the 12th gen Maria and Akane are higher up than Miki and Haa-chin.... During one of the 12ki radio shows HaaChel mentions how the other two had taken a taxi (and often do) while those two take the train haha
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
I hate how you guys started talking about K-pop when I wasn't here and then stopped right when I came back.
Edit: Well I also wanted to mention how surprised I was with that 'poll' Shoujo posted earlier. I thought AKB would be a lot more known, if I'm not wrong that pic is about interest and familiarty/popularity and not the numbers of fans, which I would understand was a smaller amount.
And also with Babymetal's mediocre fame lol I get it I know international fans' criteria has nothing to do with Japanese's or their market buuut since they went so viral last year I figured out it would have gotten some sort of repercussion on TV media hence it would increase a lot their popularity. And Juice=Juice being the 2nd most interesting female musical act??? How it comes? specially right now that their last singles kinda suck
AND EDIT2: For Anderei and Farrah, do you remember when A's abs reveal was banned because it was toooo sexual? and then 4 years later you have a female girlband slapping their crotches on camera, things have changed a lot ~
Edit: Well I also wanted to mention how surprised I was with that 'poll' Shoujo posted earlier. I thought AKB would be a lot more known, if I'm not wrong that pic is about interest and familiarty/popularity and not the numbers of fans, which I would understand was a smaller amount.
And also with Babymetal's mediocre fame lol I get it I know international fans' criteria has nothing to do with Japanese's or their market buuut since they went so viral last year I figured out it would have gotten some sort of repercussion on TV media hence it would increase a lot their popularity. And Juice=Juice being the 2nd most interesting female musical act??? How it comes? specially right now that their last singles kinda suck
AND EDIT2: For Anderei and Farrah, do you remember when A's abs reveal was banned because it was toooo sexual? and then 4 years later you have a female girlband slapping their crotches on camera, things have changed a lot ~
Last edited by Derby on Sat May 09, 2015 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hey
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
I don't want to go terribly off topic but I would hardly call BABYMETAL's fame mediocre. Nine times out of ten any internet denizen is going to know BABYMETAL. It's Sakura Gakuin that are suffering from "who are they" syndrome.
[11:13:35 PM] Liam: DO NOT LET JAPANESE IDOLS GET IN THE WAY OF THE *AMERICAN* DREAM
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arcobaleno
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
Juice=Juice isn't the most interesting female musical act right now. Eri was right, the vertical line is "interest in group", going down to up in level of interest, the horizontal line from left to right is how famous they are. J=J is unknown, but there is a lot of interest in them from the few people who DO know them.
What I find truly interesting is that Riho is much, much, much higher on the unknown but popular part of the grid than MM itself.
What I find truly interesting is that Riho is much, much, much higher on the unknown but popular part of the grid than MM itself.
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
That's what I was saying Haru. Because of their internet viral popularity they should be more popular in Japan but in that poll they are not as popular as they should be. I mean their only a few cm above RIHO (as for the popularity)
And Arco at first I thought of that before I wrote my comment but well then I totally forgot about it. And for the Riho thing I guess it is just what you said about J=J, like Nonaka Miki as one of 'the best female vocalists' lol sure
I wish I could read Japanese just to know if there are other members because I didn't even think that Riho could be there by herself :(
SNSD a lot less popular than KARA, I would like to see if this poll could be re-done next year to see if the loss of members have affected KARA in Japan
And Arco at first I thought of that before I wrote my comment but well then I totally forgot about it. And for the Riho thing I guess it is just what you said about J=J, like Nonaka Miki as one of 'the best female vocalists' lol sure
I wish I could read Japanese just to know if there are other members because I didn't even think that Riho could be there by herself :(
SNSD a lot less popular than KARA, I would like to see if this poll could be re-done next year to see if the loss of members have affected KARA in Japan
HeyRe: Post-MM careers and soloists
Well like Q said, they only polled 500 people. And there's other things that could make it inaccurate as well. Don't read too much into it.
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Anderei" data-cid="187883" data-time="1431143446">
Well I just can see why someone wouldn't like a narcissist who complains a lot lol. I like her but iirc her original blog translator stopped because he couldn't stand reading about how she complained about being fat all the time. d.</blockquote>
Just to clarify, is this F. Kanon or Koharu?
Well I just can see why someone wouldn't like a narcissist who complains a lot lol. I like her but iirc her original blog translator stopped because he couldn't stand reading about how she complained about being fat all the time. d.</blockquote>
Just to clarify, is this F. Kanon or Koharu?
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
Ps how does everyone know the mm girls are rich?
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al kusanagi
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
Mostly speculation, but some like Mizuki and Riho have relatives that are really well off and important family names. Masaki's family is most likely well off with all her childhood interests like horse riding, ballet, drumming, and expensive English-learning videos. Playing golf in Japan is insanely expensive, so Eripon's family probably has a bit of money. I believe Ayumi's family owns a bakery. I don't know much about the new members, but most seem middle to upper-middle class.
Last edited by al kusanagi on Sat May 09, 2015 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
Murota Mizuki is rich too unless I'm mistaken and buying multi hundred dollar watches is just something girls do in Japan. I think most H!P girls in general are well off. <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="eri" data-cid="187907" data-time="1431193798"><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Anderei" data-cid="187883" data-time="1431143446">
Well I just can see why someone wouldn't like a narcissist who complains a lot lol. I like her but iirc her original blog translator stopped because he couldn't stand reading about how she complained about being fat all the time. d.</blockquote>
Just to clarify, is this F. Kanon or Koharu?</blockquote>
F. Kanon.
Well I just can see why someone wouldn't like a narcissist who complains a lot lol. I like her but iirc her original blog translator stopped because he couldn't stand reading about how she complained about being fat all the time. d.</blockquote>
Just to clarify, is this F. Kanon or Koharu?</blockquote>
F. Kanon.
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Derby" data-cid="187904" data-time="1431182872">That's what I was saying Haru. Because of their internet viral popularity they should be more popular in Japan but in that poll they are not as popular as they should be. I mean their only a few cm above RIHO (as for the popularity)</blockquote>Ah whoopsies, my apologies.
Like Anderei said though, 500 people only. They sold out SSA so...
Yeah, Murotan's family is pretty rich too. Rikako's is middle class-ish, rebuilding from the earthquake and stuff.
I can see why most girls would be well off though, vocal training and dance schools are expensive.
Like Anderei said though, 500 people only. They sold out SSA so...
Yeah, Murotan's family is pretty rich too. Rikako's is middle class-ish, rebuilding from the earthquake and stuff.
I can see why most girls would be well off though, vocal training and dance schools are expensive.
[11:13:35 PM] Liam: DO NOT LET JAPANESE IDOLS GET IN THE WAY OF THE *AMERICAN* DREAM
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momoirosaya
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="eri" data-cid="187908" data-time="1431194293">
Ps how does everyone know the mm girls are rich?</blockquote>
Some girls have also said it about other girls.
Ps how does everyone know the mm girls are rich?</blockquote>
Some girls have also said it about other girls.
rikako♡eripon♡airi
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
It hasn't always been this way, has it? Several of the old girls were known to be poor - I think Aibon and Nono both came from working class backgrounds (or even less). And of course Gocchin. I wonder if part of it is because a lot of the new girls started out as Eggs/KSS and they have to pay a tuition that a poor family likely couldn't afford?
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arcobaleno
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
That, and if they aren't already in Tokyo, they have to move there. That's the main reason Cuca can't join H!P, since her family is unable to afford that move.
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
I think it was more common back then but I think plenty of the old girls came from decent backgrounds too. But these days it's probably different because so many girls see it as a hobby. I think being in a niche career where you peak young is a risky move for poorer girls instead of school or something like that. That's how I'd see it anyway, since I come from a poorer family myself.
The Eggs didn't pay a fee. It was the Kenshuusei program that introduced that and iirc it's about 100 USD a month.
The Eggs didn't pay a fee. It was the Kenshuusei program that introduced that and iirc it's about 100 USD a month.
Last edited by Anderei on Sat May 09, 2015 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
Oh yeah, I didn't mean to imply there were always underclass/middle-class girls in the old days. Just that there used to be more variety than there is now.
I'd love to know the official costs of the KSS program because I've heard a lot of numbers bounced around but no sources. 100 a month seems a bit low considering that's pretty close to what my mom paid for my opera and piano lessons in high school, and while my teacher was very high caliber, small town music lessons can't really compare to the opportunities that can come from being a KSS. But I could be wrong.
This reminds me - since coming to Tokyo is a must and is so expensive, are any of the new Country Girls actually... country?
I'd love to know the official costs of the KSS program because I've heard a lot of numbers bounced around but no sources. 100 a month seems a bit low considering that's pretty close to what my mom paid for my opera and piano lessons in high school, and while my teacher was very high caliber, small town music lessons can't really compare to the opportunities that can come from being a KSS. But I could be wrong.
This reminds me - since coming to Tokyo is a must and is so expensive, are any of the new Country Girls actually... country?
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momoirosaya
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="arcobaleno" data-cid="187917" data-time="1431220436">
That, and if they aren't already in Tokyo, they have to move there. That's the main reason Cuca can't join H!P, since her family is unable to afford that move.</blockquote>
They have company housing for girls from far away. Cuca just hasn't passed any auditions.
That, and if they aren't already in Tokyo, they have to move there. That's the main reason Cuca can't join H!P, since her family is unable to afford that move.</blockquote>
They have company housing for girls from far away. Cuca just hasn't passed any auditions.
rikako♡eripon♡airi
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al kusanagi
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
What I wonder about the KSS program is if there is compensation or not. Say they pay 100 a month, but UFP is selling tickets to their events, selling photos, putting them on TV shows, magazine articles, etc. If they're not getting compensated, then UFP is getting money from them and making bank off them, but if they get some sort of percentage or appearance fee, then they're probably making up that monthly cost they pay.
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
^^She's specifically mentioned her parents can't afford the move so I don't think that'd be an option they're willing to consider. I don't think anyone does company housing right now? It's been a long time since anyone has talked about it.
In response to Al, I feel like Kenshuusei probably don't get compensation. The amount of goods they sell and their magazine appearances probably aren't so much that UFP would stand to make a profit from them if they paid them.
Also, Farrah, Manaka is from Hokkaido. Risa is Tokyo, Chisaki is Tochigi, Uta is Kanagawa, and Mai is Tokyo.
So as a whole they're not very country lol.
In response to Al, I feel like Kenshuusei probably don't get compensation. The amount of goods they sell and their magazine appearances probably aren't so much that UFP would stand to make a profit from them if they paid them.
Also, Farrah, Manaka is from Hokkaido. Risa is Tokyo, Chisaki is Tochigi, Uta is Kanagawa, and Mai is Tokyo.
So as a whole they're not very country lol.
Last edited by Anderei on Sat May 09, 2015 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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momoirosaya
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Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
^I know, but if she really got into MM her parents might try to work something out.
I know KSS also pay their own transportation costs, and that's why the ones who live farther away can't always come to lessons.
I know KSS also pay their own transportation costs, and that's why the ones who live farther away can't always come to lessons.
rikako♡eripon♡airi
Re: Post-MM careers and soloists
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Farrah" data-cid="187916" data-time="1431218600">
It hasn't always been this way, has it? Several of the old girls were known to be poor - I think Aibon and Nono both came from working class backgrounds (or even less). And of course Gocchin. I wonder if part of it is because a lot of the new girls started out as Eggs/KSS and they have to pay a tuition that a poor family likely couldn't afford?</blockquote>
Dont forget Fujimoto.
It hasn't always been this way, has it? Several of the old girls were known to be poor - I think Aibon and Nono both came from working class backgrounds (or even less). And of course Gocchin. I wonder if part of it is because a lot of the new girls started out as Eggs/KSS and they have to pay a tuition that a poor family likely couldn't afford?</blockquote>
Dont forget Fujimoto.