<div> </div>
<div>This would seem to refute the main points of both myself and Anderei
</div>Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
Moderators: testacles_4, Shoujo Q, momoirosaya
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
<div>A look at MMs recent sales numbers shows that they are as popular as they've ever been since adopting the EDM sound. In fact, their 3rd and 4th best selling EDM singles were released during the second half of last year: Tsumetai (153,242) and Oh my wish! (149,309). Saturday Night will finish right around 120K, which is right in middle of the pack, and well ahead of four of the singles released during the general idol resurgence: OTT (110,475), Brainstorming (106,680), Help Me!! (103,936), Wakuteka (88, 977). </div>
<div> </div>
<div>This would seem to refute the main points of both myself and Anderei</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This would seem to refute the main points of both myself and Anderei
</div>
Last edited by JPope on Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jpope On Jpop! blog
-
TicTacAnyone
- ANGERME
- Posts: 2519
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:38 am
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
[quote="JPope"]
<div>A look at MMs recent sales numbers shows that they are as popular as they've ever been since adopting the EDM sound. In fact, their 3rd and 4th best selling EDM singles were released during the second half of last year: Tsumetai (153,242) and Oh my wish! (149,309). Saturday Night will finish right around 120K, which is right in middle of the pack, and well ahead of four of the singles released during the general idol resurgence: OTT (110,475), Brainstorming (106,680), Help Me!! (103,936), Wakuteka (88, 977). </div>
<div> </div>
<div>This would seem to refute the main points of both myself and Anderei</div>
[/quote]
Yes but don't forget they've upped the # of girls and handshake events, so wota had even more of a reason to bulk buy CDs within the past couple years!
<div>A look at MMs recent sales numbers shows that they are as popular as they've ever been since adopting the EDM sound. In fact, their 3rd and 4th best selling EDM singles were released during the second half of last year: Tsumetai (153,242) and Oh my wish! (149,309). Saturday Night will finish right around 120K, which is right in middle of the pack, and well ahead of four of the singles released during the general idol resurgence: OTT (110,475), Brainstorming (106,680), Help Me!! (103,936), Wakuteka (88, 977). </div>
<div> </div>
<div>This would seem to refute the main points of both myself and Anderei
</div>[/quote]
Yes but don't forget they've upped the # of girls and handshake events, so wota had even more of a reason to bulk buy CDs within the past couple years!
Last edited by TicTacAnyone on Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
[quote="TicTacAnyone"]
Yes but don't forget they've upped the # of girls and handshake events, so wota had even more of a reason to bulk buy CDs within the past couple years!
[/quote]
But if the idol revival has ended -- to the point where even the mighty 48 groups are experiencing their worst sales in years -- how is it that MM is actually selling more than most of their singles released during the idol revival?
When did MM start doing handshake events? Which single was the first? (I'll pistol-whip the first on who says "Ai no tane"
)
Yes but don't forget they've upped the # of girls and handshake events, so wota had even more of a reason to bulk buy CDs within the past couple years!
[/quote]
But if the idol revival has ended -- to the point where even the mighty 48 groups are experiencing their worst sales in years -- how is it that MM is actually selling more than most of their singles released during the idol revival?
When did MM start doing handshake events? Which single was the first? (I'll pistol-whip the first on who says "Ai no tane"
) Jpope On Jpop! blog
-
al kusanagi
- つんく♂
- Posts: 5324
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:56 pm
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
I want to say it was right around 2003. I went to what was probably the first round of them, and the 6th gen was part of the group.
PSN: Aurin13
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
-
al kusanagi
- つんく♂
- Posts: 5324
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:56 pm
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
Onna ni Sachi Are might have been the first to come with an actual ticket to a handshake event in it. I think the thing I was referring to was a meet the 6th or 7th gen series of events.
The smaller groups like Country Musume and Melon Kinen-bi would have handshake events all the time when their singles came out as early as 2002, where they would perform it in public and people who bought a copy could meet them.
The smaller groups like Country Musume and Melon Kinen-bi would have handshake events all the time when their singles came out as early as 2002, where they would perform it in public and people who bought a copy could meet them.
PSN: Aurin13
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
The first singles-with-tickets were... Love Machine, Iroppoi Jirettai, and Kanashimi Twilight.
But that's for MM. I vaguely remember virtually all of Berryz' early singles had handshake or meet-the-Kids events.
But that's for MM. I vaguely remember virtually all of Berryz' early singles had handshake or meet-the-Kids events.
-
TicTacAnyone
- ANGERME
- Posts: 2519
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:38 am
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
But MM just started doing these nation-wide, large handshake events within recent years, right? The ones where they get lottos for which prefectures they're going to?
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
They brought the large scale handshakes back for 123.
Also, Jpope, I think it's worth noting that when their sales first started going up, so did their media presence. Wasn't anything crazy but there was the occasional noteworthy television appearance and those have all but disappeared.
Also, Jpope, I think it's worth noting that when their sales first started going up, so did their media presence. Wasn't anything crazy but there was the occasional noteworthy television appearance and those have all but disappeared.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
[quote="Anderei"]
They brought the large scale handshakes back for 123.
Also, Jpope, I think it's worth noting that when their sales first started going up, so did their media presence. Wasn't anything crazy but there was the occasional noteworthy television appearance and those have all but disappeared.
[/quote]
<div>First of all, I don't want it to seem like I'm picking on you, because I'm not. A lot of people hold the same opinion on this as you, and as I said earlier, I think we're both wrong in our original assessments. But here's why I think you put too much stock into media exposure as an overriding factor wrt their increased sales. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Insofar as the increased media presence was necessary to announce and promote the updating of the Morning Musume brand and their new sound, I agree that it played a part in their increase in sales. Had they simply kept the same old sound that was averaging 50K per single, though, I don't believe that increased media exposure would have amounted to much, if anything, sales-wise. Outside of the context of "New Group, New Sound, New Music" the media blitz would have been wasted money.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Also, if greater media presence is a direct indicator of greater sales, how is it that their sales are actually better now with far less media exposure than when they relaunched the brand/sound with 123?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Let's take this a step further and look at historical sales numbers relative to media exposure. For nearly four years now, Morning Musume has managed to sustain the same level of sales as the immediate post-"Do It Now!" era did from "Hyokkori Hyoutanjima " through "Joshi Kashimashi Monogatari". We're talking early 2003 to mid 2004. Back then, MM's media presence included a weekly TV show, regular Utaban appearances, regular appearances on other variety shows, various radio shows, Kouhaku appearances, and a slew of commercial tie-ins. Sub-groups were still active, and many of the members most popular to the general public were still part of the group. And they still didn't out-sell this current group of less talented and comparatively unknown girls who receive but a fraction of the media exposure during a down-swing in idol popularity, and when file-sharing has never been easier. Get past 2004, and the EDM Era smokes everything. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>No, you and I are both missing something. It's neither as simple as "more talent, better music!" or "more media exposure, more handshakes!" Their current sales belie both theories. They're doing something right, whether we like it or not.</div>
They brought the large scale handshakes back for 123.
Also, Jpope, I think it's worth noting that when their sales first started going up, so did their media presence. Wasn't anything crazy but there was the occasional noteworthy television appearance and those have all but disappeared.
[/quote]
<div>First of all, I don't want it to seem like I'm picking on you, because I'm not. A lot of people hold the same opinion on this as you, and as I said earlier, I think we're both wrong in our original assessments. But here's why I think you put too much stock into media exposure as an overriding factor wrt their increased sales. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Insofar as the increased media presence was necessary to announce and promote the updating of the Morning Musume brand and their new sound, I agree that it played a part in their increase in sales. Had they simply kept the same old sound that was averaging 50K per single, though, I don't believe that increased media exposure would have amounted to much, if anything, sales-wise. Outside of the context of "New Group, New Sound, New Music" the media blitz would have been wasted money.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Also, if greater media presence is a direct indicator of greater sales, how is it that their sales are actually better now with far less media exposure than when they relaunched the brand/sound with 123?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Let's take this a step further and look at historical sales numbers relative to media exposure. For nearly four years now, Morning Musume has managed to sustain the same level of sales as the immediate post-"Do It Now!" era did from "Hyokkori Hyoutanjima " through "Joshi Kashimashi Monogatari". We're talking early 2003 to mid 2004. Back then, MM's media presence included a weekly TV show, regular Utaban appearances, regular appearances on other variety shows, various radio shows, Kouhaku appearances, and a slew of commercial tie-ins. Sub-groups were still active, and many of the members most popular to the general public were still part of the group. And they still didn't out-sell this current group of less talented and comparatively unknown girls who receive but a fraction of the media exposure during a down-swing in idol popularity, and when file-sharing has never been easier. Get past 2004, and the EDM Era smokes everything. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>No, you and I are both missing something. It's neither as simple as "more talent, better music!" or "more media exposure, more handshakes!" Their current sales belie both theories. They're doing something right, whether we like it or not.</div>
Jpope On Jpop! blog
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="197898" data-time="1464941431">Let's take this a step further and look at historical sales numbers relative to media exposure. For nearly four years now, Morning Musume has managed to sustain the same level of sales as the immediate post-"Do It Now!" era did from "Hyokkori Hyoutanjima " through "Joshi Kashimashi Monogatari". We're talking early 2003 to mid 2004. Back then, MM's media presence included a weekly TV show, regular Utaban appearances, regular appearances on other variety shows, various radio shows, Kouhaku appearances, and a slew of commercial tie-ins. Sub-groups were still active, and many of the members most popular to the general public were still part of the group. And they still didn't out-sell this current group of less talented and comparatively unknown girls who receive but a fraction of the media exposure during a down-swing in idol popularity, and when file-sharing has never been easier. Get past 2004, and the EDM Era smokes everything.
No, you and I are both missing something. It's neither as simple as "more talent, better music!" or "more media exposure, more handshakes!" Their current sales belie both theories. They're doing something right, whether we like it or not.</blockquote>
I have nothing to refute that nor an answer to what we're missing in this picture. My only idea for now is to see how MM sales look proportionately to sales of all music overall, but I have no data for it nor a way to find it our right now. Although it makes even less sense when you remember that supposedly music sales have been falling all across the board for the last N years.
No, you and I are both missing something. It's neither as simple as "more talent, better music!" or "more media exposure, more handshakes!" Their current sales belie both theories. They're doing something right, whether we like it or not.</blockquote>
I have nothing to refute that nor an answer to what we're missing in this picture. My only idea for now is to see how MM sales look proportionately to sales of all music overall, but I have no data for it nor a way to find it our right now. Although it makes even less sense when you remember that supposedly music sales have been falling all across the board for the last N years.
⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯
#whereisyui #ゆいちゃん
~breathe your last and fall into my eternal embrace~
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
At the risk of sounding stupid, I'm going to say that it was a combination of both talent, hype, and handshakes.
We got 123, which admittedly was a Very New Sound, but they also marketed "Leader Sayu" as an amazing tool. I think half the articles were given over to praising of Sayu as a hardworking leader, and that image of MM as being a cut above other idols really pushed them. Let's face it: the 6 months between her grad announcement and the actual graduation sustained a fanclub tour, solo bus tours, and all that good stuff.
Post Sayu, I think they're relying much more on handshakes. Even much more than the 2014 run. Just the first two weeks of May alone was a daily dose of handshake events; heck, they now run that "30 locations in a day" special where each member runs around three different cities alone, so they're really boosting sales for anybody who can't make it to concerts. And it's been constant since last year (2015) that they do pre-sales of the CD singles - with handshakes too - at the concerts, So you've got a captured crowd there (because everyone shows up early to line up for goods, too).
So you're balancing any fan loss or decline in talent with more personal exposure.
But that's also a double-edged sword. If the girls are doing all of these handshakes and meet-and-greet events, they're just not getting any downtime to really practice or develop their performance technique. They maintain some solo events - Ayumi has a monthly TV gig, and the others have radio etc (they're now really using Maria during baseball season) - but ultimately, it feels like management is just trying to market each girl separately, instead of abiding by the old weekly TV show format. That, and of course as a lot of the existing slots are being taken over by the 48/46 groups, so there really isn't a lot of time to really bond or try something new.
Probably the biggest mystery is: how do these fan sustain their wallets? I know one Reina wota who makes his living off day trading the stock market, but I can't apply that across the entire board...
We got 123, which admittedly was a Very New Sound, but they also marketed "Leader Sayu" as an amazing tool. I think half the articles were given over to praising of Sayu as a hardworking leader, and that image of MM as being a cut above other idols really pushed them. Let's face it: the 6 months between her grad announcement and the actual graduation sustained a fanclub tour, solo bus tours, and all that good stuff.
Post Sayu, I think they're relying much more on handshakes. Even much more than the 2014 run. Just the first two weeks of May alone was a daily dose of handshake events; heck, they now run that "30 locations in a day" special where each member runs around three different cities alone, so they're really boosting sales for anybody who can't make it to concerts. And it's been constant since last year (2015) that they do pre-sales of the CD singles - with handshakes too - at the concerts, So you've got a captured crowd there (because everyone shows up early to line up for goods, too).
So you're balancing any fan loss or decline in talent with more personal exposure.
But that's also a double-edged sword. If the girls are doing all of these handshakes and meet-and-greet events, they're just not getting any downtime to really practice or develop their performance technique. They maintain some solo events - Ayumi has a monthly TV gig, and the others have radio etc (they're now really using Maria during baseball season) - but ultimately, it feels like management is just trying to market each girl separately, instead of abiding by the old weekly TV show format. That, and of course as a lot of the existing slots are being taken over by the 48/46 groups, so there really isn't a lot of time to really bond or try something new.
Probably the biggest mystery is: how do these fan sustain their wallets? I know one Reina wota who makes his living off day trading the stock market, but I can't apply that across the entire board...
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="aine" data-cid="197915" data-time="1464992704">
<div>I have nothing to refute that nor an answer to what we're missing in this picture. My only idea for now is to see how MM sales look proportionately to sales of all music overall, but I have no data for it nor a way to find it our right now. Although it makes even less sense when you remember that supposedly music sales have been falling all across the board for the last N years.
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>The world of pop music is both strange and fickle. I had a feeling that the current group was outselling groups that had way more exposure and popular members, but even I was surprised that I could go back to the beginning of 2003 to confirm my suspicions. 2003! That lineup included Abe, Iida, Yaguchi and the entire 4th and 5th generations. That's a whole lot of popular members.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I added up the numbers of total singles sales from "Hyokkori Hyoutanjima" to "Chokkan 2" -- singles 17 through 28, -- and compared it to the total of MM's last 12, which begin with 123. (Why yes, I am bored. My car is broke and I can't do shit about it until tomorrow.)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Singles 17-28 sold 1,194,739 compared to singles 50-61 sales of 1,535,294, or 340,555 fewer. That's unbelievable. Now, you're saying, "But JPope, why did you start with the Stupid Puppet Song? The "post 'Do It! Now' era" begins with "Koko ni Iruzee!" which sold over 200K, dumb-ass!" That's a fair question. Here's your answer: Singles 16-27 ("Koko ni Iruzee!" through "Iroppoi Jirettai") sold a total of 1,368,853 copies, or 166,441 fewer than the last 12 MM singles.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I don't know if this surprises anyone else, but it just seems counter intuitive to a long-time fan like me. I had forgotten just how fast and extreme their sales decline was.</div>
<div>I have nothing to refute that nor an answer to what we're missing in this picture. My only idea for now is to see how MM sales look proportionately to sales of all music overall, but I have no data for it nor a way to find it our right now. Although it makes even less sense when you remember that supposedly music sales have been falling all across the board for the last N years.
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>The world of pop music is both strange and fickle. I had a feeling that the current group was outselling groups that had way more exposure and popular members, but even I was surprised that I could go back to the beginning of 2003 to confirm my suspicions. 2003! That lineup included Abe, Iida, Yaguchi and the entire 4th and 5th generations. That's a whole lot of popular members.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I added up the numbers of total singles sales from "Hyokkori Hyoutanjima" to "Chokkan 2" -- singles 17 through 28, -- and compared it to the total of MM's last 12, which begin with 123. (Why yes, I am bored. My car is broke and I can't do shit about it until tomorrow.)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Singles 17-28 sold 1,194,739 compared to singles 50-61 sales of 1,535,294, or 340,555 fewer. That's unbelievable. Now, you're saying, "But JPope, why did you start with the Stupid Puppet Song? The "post 'Do It! Now' era" begins with "Koko ni Iruzee!" which sold over 200K, dumb-ass!" That's a fair question. Here's your answer: Singles 16-27 ("Koko ni Iruzee!" through "Iroppoi Jirettai") sold a total of 1,368,853 copies, or 166,441 fewer than the last 12 MM singles.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I don't know if this surprises anyone else, but it just seems counter intuitive to a long-time fan like me. I had forgotten just how fast and extreme their sales decline was.</div>
Jpope On Jpop! blog
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
[quote="kitaoji"]
At the risk of sounding stupid, I'm going to say that it was a combination of both talent, hype, and handshakes.
We got 123, which admittedly was a Very New Sound, but they also marketed "Leader Sayu" as an amazing tool. I think half the articles were given over to praising of Sayu as a hardworking leader, and that image of MM as being a cut above other idols really pushed them. Let's face it: the 6 months between her grad announcement and the actual graduation sustained a fanclub tour, solo bus tours, and all that good stuff.
Post Sayu, I think they're relying much more on handshakes. Even much more than the 2014 run. Just the first two weeks of May alone was a daily dose of handshake events; heck, they now run that "30 locations in a day" special where each member runs around three different cities alone, so they're really boosting sales for anybody who can't make it to concerts. And it's been constant since last year (2015) that they do pre-sales of the CD singles - with handshakes too - at the concerts, So you've got a captured crowd there (because everyone shows up early to line up for goods, too).
[/quote]
I admit, 123 is when I rejoined the MM fandom after a long hiatus, so I don't remember the hype leading up to it. I remember the "Leader Sayu: dedicated idol" articles than came out around the release of the "Wagamama/Gundan" single when she was the last of the old guard, though. You might be right. Still, it doesn't completely explain how they're sustaining their sales during an era where idols are less popular overall. We should be seeing declining numbers, not steady. How the next single sells will be telling. They've only dipped below 120K twice since Wagamama, (Seishun Kozou and Saturday Night) and rebounded very nicely after Seishun Kozou. If they drop even further with the nest single, it might be that the state of the idol world is catching up with them.
At the risk of sounding stupid, I'm going to say that it was a combination of both talent, hype, and handshakes.
We got 123, which admittedly was a Very New Sound, but they also marketed "Leader Sayu" as an amazing tool. I think half the articles were given over to praising of Sayu as a hardworking leader, and that image of MM as being a cut above other idols really pushed them. Let's face it: the 6 months between her grad announcement and the actual graduation sustained a fanclub tour, solo bus tours, and all that good stuff.
Post Sayu, I think they're relying much more on handshakes. Even much more than the 2014 run. Just the first two weeks of May alone was a daily dose of handshake events; heck, they now run that "30 locations in a day" special where each member runs around three different cities alone, so they're really boosting sales for anybody who can't make it to concerts. And it's been constant since last year (2015) that they do pre-sales of the CD singles - with handshakes too - at the concerts, So you've got a captured crowd there (because everyone shows up early to line up for goods, too).
[/quote]
I admit, 123 is when I rejoined the MM fandom after a long hiatus, so I don't remember the hype leading up to it. I remember the "Leader Sayu: dedicated idol" articles than came out around the release of the "Wagamama/Gundan" single when she was the last of the old guard, though. You might be right. Still, it doesn't completely explain how they're sustaining their sales during an era where idols are less popular overall. We should be seeing declining numbers, not steady. How the next single sells will be telling. They've only dipped below 120K twice since Wagamama, (Seishun Kozou and Saturday Night) and rebounded very nicely after Seishun Kozou. If they drop even further with the nest single, it might be that the state of the idol world is catching up with them.
Jpope On Jpop! blog
-
JoshuaJSlone
- カントリー・ガールズ
- Posts: 413
- Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:32 am
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="197919" data-time="1465007778">If they drop even further with the nest single, it might be that the state of the idol world is catching up with them.</blockquote>I can't claim to have any better ideas on causes of sales trends than you--but just looking at results, if we widen the view a little to Hello! Project as a whole; we also see things like C-ute, Juice=Juice, and ANGERME setting new personal sales highs in recent times. So if there is some idol slowdown, it's not apparent by looking at the lower H!P groups.
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
Finding the overall music sales data was much easier than I thought, RIAJ has it all on their statistics page and amazingly don't make you pay to view it, unlike Oricon. And I almost took it for granted that it's in English, too. 
Sales Volume since 1929
Revenues since 1952
Any data analyst bored enough to plot MM sales numbers against those?
Sales Volume since 1929
Revenues since 1952
Any data analyst bored enough to plot MM sales numbers against those?
Last edited by aine on Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯
#whereisyui #ゆいちゃん
~breathe your last and fall into my eternal embrace~
-
al kusanagi
- つんく♂
- Posts: 5324
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:56 pm
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
Japanese sales have seemingly been dictated by female fans for as long as I can remember. MM's resurgence came with a huge influx of female fans, to the point where it's around a 50/50 male/female ratio now, where during the dark age it was like 20/1.
PSN: Aurin13
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
[quote="JoshuaJSlone"]
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="197919" data-time="1465007778">
If they drop even further with the nest single, it might be that the state of the idol world is catching up with them.
</blockquote>
I can't claim to have any better ideas on causes of sales trends than you--but just looking at results, if we widen the view a little to Hello! Project as a whole; we also see things like C-ute, Juice=Juice, and ANGERME setting new personal sales highs in recent times. So if there is some idol slowdown, it's not apparent by looking at the lower H!P groups.
[/quote]
<div>Shit, I can't believe I never considered the other H!P groups, but you're right. C-ute is especially noteworthy, as they spent 4+ years averaging 20-30K per single consistently before working their way up over the course of four singles to 65K, which they've sustained for four years now. Their last two singles are their 1st and 4th best selling singles. And their business model couldn't be more different than MM's.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I also tried to check sales numbers for other idol groups at all levels, which was difficult for some of the mid-to-lower level groups. A lot of the various wiki entries have either been abandoned or never included sales figures to begin with. What I did find was mixed, though, to the point where I question whether we actually are in a major shift away from idol groups.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'd be interested to know when people contend that this shift occurred.</div>
[quote="aine"]
Finding the overall music sales data was much easier than I thought, RIAJ has it all on their statistics page and amazingly don't make you pay to view it, unlike Oricon. And I almost took it for granted that it's in English, too.
Sales Volume since 1929
Revenues since 1952
Any data analyst bored enough to plot MM sales numbers against those?
[/quote]
I might be!
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="197919" data-time="1465007778">
If they drop even further with the nest single, it might be that the state of the idol world is catching up with them.
</blockquote>
I can't claim to have any better ideas on causes of sales trends than you--but just looking at results, if we widen the view a little to Hello! Project as a whole; we also see things like C-ute, Juice=Juice, and ANGERME setting new personal sales highs in recent times. So if there is some idol slowdown, it's not apparent by looking at the lower H!P groups.
[/quote]
<div>Shit, I can't believe I never considered the other H!P groups, but you're right. C-ute is especially noteworthy, as they spent 4+ years averaging 20-30K per single consistently before working their way up over the course of four singles to 65K, which they've sustained for four years now. Their last two singles are their 1st and 4th best selling singles. And their business model couldn't be more different than MM's.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I also tried to check sales numbers for other idol groups at all levels, which was difficult for some of the mid-to-lower level groups. A lot of the various wiki entries have either been abandoned or never included sales figures to begin with. What I did find was mixed, though, to the point where I question whether we actually are in a major shift away from idol groups.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'd be interested to know when people contend that this shift occurred.</div>
[quote="aine"]
Finding the overall music sales data was much easier than I thought, RIAJ has it all on their statistics page and amazingly don't make you pay to view it, unlike Oricon. And I almost took it for granted that it's in English, too.
Sales Volume since 1929
Revenues since 1952
Any data analyst bored enough to plot MM sales numbers against those?
[/quote]
I might be!
Last edited by JPope on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jpope On Jpop! blog
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
If the idol industry is on it's way out, what's currently in that's making it this way? Are soloists coming back again or something?
Formerly Mizura
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
Soloists always have and still perform better digitally than idols which is a better indicator of mainstream interest than physical sales, so in some ways you could say they never went out. Those charts are dominated by soloists and bands mostly.
Idols are never gonna go away but they're not what the general public wants to see.
Idols are never gonna go away but they're not what the general public wants to see.
Last edited by Anderei on Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
Not going to lie, because of Soundscan I don't even bother looking at Oricon numbers anymore LOL.
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
True. Shame it's gone. AKB's newest election single reported 1.3 million copies in day one and with days 2-5 totaling to less than 100k it'd be interesting to see what numbers Soundscan would have had.
I don't even think Wagamama broke 40k on Soundscan.
I don't even think Wagamama broke 40k on Soundscan.
Last edited by Anderei on Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
While Soundscan was a truer gauge of general appeal than Oricon, it's not as if Oricon's numbers don't matter or don't tell us anything. Whether a single is sold at a handshake event, purchased in bulk by a wota, or bought at a record store by a normal music fan, it's still a copy that has been sold. While I wish Soundscan still existed for the purposes of gauging general appeal, Oricon's method of tracking raw total sales is probably more important to the companies who produce the groups.
Jpope On Jpop! blog
-
Solarblade
- ANGERME
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 6:06 pm
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
So, probably no 13ki this year. Or they already have some but are holding them back for some reason.
-
JoshuaJSlone
- カントリー・ガールズ
- Posts: 413
- Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:32 am
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DonJuan" data-cid="198175" data-time="1466008446">So, probably no 13ki this year. Or they already have some but are holding them back for some reason.</blockquote>This year is still doable. The new application deadline is not quite 6 months from the first. Add the same time to when they announced the non-results, and we end up in late November.
-
momoirosaya
- つんく♂
- Posts: 5148
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:21 pm
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
I bet there will be winners this time. Gens 10, 11, & 12 were all announced at the end of September so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what their plan was.
rikako♡eripon♡airi
-
TicTacAnyone
- ANGERME
- Posts: 2519
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:38 am
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
DANBARAAAAA, YOU STILL HAVE A SHOT.
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
[quote="Saya"]
I bet there will be winners this time. Gens 10, 11, & 12 were all announced at the end of September so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what their plan was.
[/quote]
Probably. Adding new member mid-year kind of defeats the purpose of the "Morning Musume 'XX" yearly numbering system.
I bet there will be winners this time. Gens 10, 11, & 12 were all announced at the end of September so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what their plan was.
[/quote]
Probably. Adding new member mid-year kind of defeats the purpose of the "Morning Musume 'XX" yearly numbering system.
Jpope On Jpop! blog
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
[quote="TicTacAnyone"]
DANBARAAAAA, YOU STILL HAVE A SHOT.
[/quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjzHMhBtf0
DANBARAAAAA, YOU STILL HAVE A SHOT.
[/quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjzHMhBtf0
Jpope On Jpop! blog
Re: Morning Musume '16 Shinseiki Auditions
[quote="JoshuaJSlone"]
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DonJuan" data-cid="198175" data-time="1466008446">
So, probably no 13ki this year. Or they already have some but are holding them back for some reason.
</blockquote>
This year is still doable. The new application deadline is not quite 6 months from the first. Add the same time to when they announced the non-results, and we end up in late November.[/quote]
But as they usually announce them during concerts (or stage plays) now and it's rather unlikely for them to do one late November, when are they going to announce them? The Countdown concert?
I swear if they do it at some fanclub event I'll scream lol.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DonJuan" data-cid="198175" data-time="1466008446">
So, probably no 13ki this year. Or they already have some but are holding them back for some reason.
</blockquote>
This year is still doable. The new application deadline is not quite 6 months from the first. Add the same time to when they announced the non-results, and we end up in late November.[/quote]
But as they usually announce them during concerts (or stage plays) now and it's rather unlikely for them to do one late November, when are they going to announce them? The Countdown concert?
I swear if they do it at some fanclub event I'll scream lol.