Morning Musume Concert Tour 2011 Fall Ai BELIEVE ~Takahashi Ai Sotsugyou Kinen Special~

[Miss Moonlight]

[quote name='tangerine' timestamp='1315062529' post='107446']

10. Yume Kara Samete (Ai)

[/quote]

UUUUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH. This is exactly what I was afraid of <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /noway.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':noway:' />

[Mugi]

[quote name='Anderei' timestamp='1315086104' post='107466']

I have a feeling 12th album will be heavy on the Gaki.

[/quote]



YAY, I think she should have her own dam album. I've always wanted more Gaki in any song.

[Pucchi-Mo]

Silver no udedokei had OK YEAH's link.

here's the real one.



[quote name='Miss Moonlight' timestamp='1315104574' post='107510']

[quote name='tangerine' timestamp='1315062529' post='107446']

10. Yume Kara Samete (Ai)

[/quote]

UUUUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH. This is exactly what I was afraid of <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /noway.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':noway:' />

[/quote]

Hahaha! At least it was an Ai solo song already and not something new where no one else gets to sing. Also, you'll probably never have to hear it again after this concert. I hope they didn't stick it on the album.



For some reason, the chorus part of the Michi x Mizu song sounds like it was written for Hangry & Angry. I really can't wait to hear this album now! Also hooray for featuring Mizuki in something not boring that would have been more likely to go to Ikuta.



Really? Give Me Love just took the piano from Ame no Furanai and remixed it with Motto Aishite Hoshii no. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> Not to mention a Goto Maki album track name, minus CAPS. Outrage aside, it works for me.



My Way~Joshikou hanamichi~: Like the BRAVO! of the album, but for a TNX group, which makes it so much better.



<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... lesson.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lesson:' />

Tomo + Onna Gokoro to Nanto Yara + Yuki/Ai x Anata ≥ Suki = Kono Ai wo Kasanete



OK YEAH: Phantom DDR arrows are flying by and my heart is racing.



Silver no udedokei: I really like this, but it needs more Sonim.



Overall, I really like what I hear on the first impression, more than the last 2 albums. I might go so far as to say, I like more songs on this than everything after Rainbow 7.



If there is at least one good surprise on the album that they didn't reveal yet, it might surpass more albums. I question if all 5 single related tracks will be included, (to make the single release more desirable). They might at least leave off Ai's solo single because anyone who cares should have her version already, and they'll get her PV on the DVD.

[Anderei]

[quote name='Pucchi mo' timestamp='1315153077' post='107536']





If there is at least one good surprise on the album that they didn't reveal yet, it might surpass more albums. I question if all 5 single related tracks will be included, (to make the single release more desirable). They might at least leave off Ai's solo single because anyone who cares should have her version already, and they'll get her PV on the DVD.

[/quote]



CD Japan doesn't have the other six songs revealed at the concert on the tracklist but it does have:



1. この地球の平和を本気で願ってるんだよ!

2. 彼と一緒にお店がしたい

3. Only you

4. まじですかスカ!

5. (予定情報)収録曲、曲順未定



I don't know what that 5th song is, but it isn't Ai's solo.

[Gerald]

I am still confused about this gig. I still want to know why there are only 10 dates instead of the usual 30+ and looking at the set list Ai gets one solo and two duets plus a load of stuff from the new album which seems pointless since she won't be around when it comes out. If it was about Ai it would be about performing a lot of the songs she's played a big part in over the years.



The fact that the last two dates are at a big venue isn't unusual, it usually is for a graduation (except Kusumi).



My impression is Ai is getting shafted, it's a "let's get her out of the way ASAP so that we can get on with the 10th Gen".



I wonder what the other three senior members will get when they go <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... unsure.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unsure:' /> .

[Vikitty]

There's tons of extra merch for the wota to blow their money on in lieu of lots of tour dates; there's the extra version of the single, she's designed like a clothing line for the tour. It does seem like a fast tour though. Maybe they figure better to get it over with quick, like ripping off a bandaid.

[Gerald]

[quote name='Valerie' timestamp='1315172035' post='107547']

There's tons of extra merch for the wota to blow their money on in lieu of lots of tour dates; there's the extra version of the single, she's designed like a clothing line for the tour. It does seem like a fast tour though. Maybe they figure better to get it over with quick, like ripping off a bandaid.

[/quote]

That's what I mean, considering she's MM's (equal) longest serving member I feel she deserves much better than this.



This just reinforces my thoughts that the the 10th Gen will be another group of 11-12 year old non-singers and that Risa, Sayumi and Reina have about a year left. What's-her-name with the foot will be graduated on medical grounds without a ceremony and nobody will notice. The 11th Gen auditions will be announced early next year and they will be introduced at the Risa/Sayumi/Reina 3-date graduation tour. A 12 to 15 member MM will attempt to take on AKB48, fail miserably and the entire H!P will disappear with barely a whimper in late 2013.



The Psychic Turtle has prognosticated.

[Anderei]

Ai has still gotten more than anyone else has. She got a double A-side single, and a third song that's a solo. She's graduating at one of the biggest arenas in Japan.She's getting another DVD and photobook to commemorate her graduating They let her design much of the set and the costumes for it. Waaay more than anyone else has ever gotten for graduating. I don't think time served equals how much stuff you deserve when you graduate, because even members who graduated in Morning Musume's heyday have not gotten this much of a goodbye. The group has been far too Takahashi-centric for years now anyway.







Edit: On a side note, since tangerine and I were talking about it earlier in the thread, there's supposedly an AikaxEriponxZukki song on the album. I guess they're just not performing it at the concert, which kind of disappoints me. I would have hoped they would've just split Aika's lines between the two but at least they're not getting completely shafted on the album if the song does exist.

[Gerald]

[quote name='Anderei' timestamp='1315173958' post='107551']

Ai has still gotten more than anyone else has. She got a double A-side single, and a third song that's a solo. She's graduating at one of the biggest arenas in Japan.She's getting another DVD and photobook to commemorate her graduating They let her design much of the set and the costumes for it. Waaay more than anyone else has ever gotten for graduating. I don't think time served equals how much stuff you deserve when you graduate, because even members who graduated in Morning Musume's heyday have not gotten this much of a goodbye. The group has been far too Takahashi-centric for years now anyway.

[/quote]

Personally I think 30 dates more than makes up for the other things. Who will care or notice if she had a hand in designing the set and costumes. Eri and JunLin had a photobook plus the concert was televised live, Yossie had a essay book and concerts at the Saitama Super Arena.



The single is purely a method of screwing more money out of the wota.



I would say that many of the old members got a better goodbye because they performed in front of far larger audiences who weren't chanting sweaty, wota for their graduation tour and many were given H!P solo careers. So far there has been no mention of Ai continuing her career within UFA.

[Anderei]

Ai actually had an interview about her future plans very recently and she said she was going to focus on acting. She'll be doing what all the other OGs do. While she has the potential for a solo career, it probably wouldn't be very successful and I don't predict it ever happening.

[rob]

It's been obvious for YEEEAAAARSSS that Ai has no ambition in going solo.



She wants to do that Osaka style stage thing.... where women play all the roles.



Failing that she will just do acting and theatre stuff I'm guessing.



Also Turtle, although I can't confirm that the tsunami/earthquake has anything to do with the lower amount of concerts for this graduation, I think it might just be why.



People living in the east of Japan are being VERY careful about electricity and there may or may not be a limit on things like concerts.



Again I have no proof to back this up, just a thought.

[Anderei]

[quote name='rob' timestamp='1315208912' post='107576']

It's been obvious for YEEEAAAARSSS that Ai has no ambition in going solo.



She wants to do that Osaka style stage thing.... where women play all the roles.



Failing that she will just do acting and theatre stuff I'm guessing.



Also Turtle, although I can't confirm that the tsunami/earthquake has anything to do with the lower amount of concerts for this graduation, I think it might just be why.



People living in the east of Japan are being VERY careful about electricity and there may or may not be a limit on things like concerts.



Again I have no proof to back this up, just a thought.

[/quote]







If I recall correctly, she auditioned for Morning Musume because she couldn't join the Takarazuka Revue. She's way too short to fill their height requirements.

[Pucchi-Mo]

[quote name='The Turtle Moves' timestamp='1315164463' post='107543']

looking at the set list Ai gets one solo and two duets plus a load of stuff from the new album which seems pointless since she won't be around when it comes out. If it was about Ai it would be about performing a lot of the songs she's played a big part in over the years.[/quote]



Well, I do think that fans would want to see her perform the new songs at least once, there's no other way to do this.



She has the unique situation of having such a presence in the group, that any recent single they perform can be related to her, she basically is the essence of Morning Musume, but I think she somehow lacks a signature song that specifically fits her character. I feel like I can't make a "ThePeace=Rika, Mr.Moonlight=Yossi, Namida=Sayumi etc" connection with the older singles and Ai. The recent stuff will be performed anyway. She's just kind of overall in the singles, I never could say "it makes sense that she's in this because it's such an Ai song." THE Manpower!!! sure as hell wasn't, and she's not from Osaka, that was for Tsunku. She's basically permanently featured because of her voice, rather than being featured her for a song that suits her, like the examples above.



If they did songs that feature her instead of the new material (which includes her), the setlist would be singles #22 to now. + 5th gen debut related songs. That concert would just be weird, we have a ton of concerts with those songs. Most past concerts gave her a prominent role. Fantasy DX's setlist was basically part one of this, it has the missing songs + Moonlight Night stripper dancing. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



You can even go back to 2005 and see how much presence she had at Rika's graduation concert. Heck, she gets to sing Furusato as a solo. She didn't really upstage Rika, but you certainly couldn't miss her at that concert. She was a front girl and the recent Rika songs also had Ai.



I never got to hear Kaori do the 6th album songs and Mini Moni never did their 2nd album before "breaking up". I'm glad that they're letting her do the 12th album songs, because I don't think they'll sound as good without her. Even if she'll be gone, we at least have a record of her participation in the new stuff.

[rob]

[quote name='Anderei' timestamp='1315241427' post='107593']

[quote name='rob' timestamp='1315208912' post='107576']

It's been obvious for YEEEAAAARSSS that Ai has no ambition in going solo.



She wants to do that Osaka style stage thing.... where women play all the roles.



Failing that she will just do acting and theatre stuff I'm guessing.



Also Turtle, although I can't confirm that the tsunami/earthquake has anything to do with the lower amount of concerts for this graduation, I think it might just be why.



People living in the east of Japan are being VERY careful about electricity and there may or may not be a limit on things like concerts.



Again I have no proof to back this up, just a thought.

[/quote]







If I recall correctly, she auditioned for Morning Musume because she couldn't join the Takarazuka Revue. She's way too short to fill their height requirements.

[/quote]



Yeh but now she's an experience and trusted performer of live concerts.... I'd be tempted if I was them!

[SilentCalv]

@Anderei - I really agree with you on the group being too much Takahashi-centric. A little change won't hurt actually.



And to tell the truth, I don't see any problem with having 10th generation a year after the 9th generation are in. That happened during Takahashi's time too. It was only a year after Risa, Takahashi, Ogawa and Konno joined and they brought in Eri, Tanaka, Sayumi and Miki. The duration is still a year and look at the results. The only difference this time is that the juniors outnumber the seniors.



But, since this is Takahashi's graduation, I am hoping to see great performance. She really has talent. What happen after this, I really don't know.

[eri]

Post-Musume Takahashi is aiming to go into theater, her dream career.



The Fall tour is shorter than normal. You know, the Fall Tour that they have every single year along with the Spring Tour? It is a regular tour - just because it is being billed as Takahashi's goodbye tour does not mean they created a tour only for her, to celebrate her, to say goodbye to her and will focus the entire event on feting her. If the concert is shorter than normal, is it not because some evil mastermind is rubbing his palms together with the sole intention of hurting the feelings of Takahashi Ai or screwing her over. It is probably because of a myriad of factors that go into planning rather complicated large events for a dwindling audience.



"Deserving" is a tricky thing. Yasuda Kei, who was never a front girl or a lead girl, got a brand new graduation song dedicated to her and her own version of Never Forget You. Abe Natsumi, who was the face-heart-soul of the group, did not get a "graduation concert." She just GRADUATED at whatever happened to be the big H!P group Winter concert of 2004. It didn't even get a clever title or a subtitle like Iida Kaori did. At that concert, she sang a solo and Furusato at the very end.



In an ideal world, all of our individual fan biases would be legitimized by actual decisions by the powers that be. But in reality, liking Takahashi a whole bunch does not mean she *must* have some 30+ tour chock full of solos. Stop making issues out of non-issues.

[SilentCalv]

@eri - Well said. The past "deserving" members not getting what they should get isn't a problem actually until fans started it. I can quote examples but that will be repeating what eri said.



And thanks for the info about her future plans. Not really sure what the future holds for Takahashi but I will definitely wait for more news about her next time.

[MiniLovely]

[quote name='Pucchi mo' timestamp='1315264352' post='107625']

She has the unique situation of having such a presence in the group, that any recent single they perform can be related to her, she basically is the essence of Morning Musume, but I think she somehow lacks a signature song that specifically fits her character. I feel like I can't make a "ThePeace=Rika, Mr.Moonlight=Yossi, Namida=Sayumi etc" connection with the older singles and Ai. The recent stuff will be performed anyway. She's just kind of overall in the singles, I never could say "it makes sense that she's in this because it's such an Ai song." THE Manpower!!! sure as hell wasn't, and she's not from Osaka, that was for Tsunku. She's basically permanently featured because of her voice, rather than being featured her for a song that suits her, like the examples above.

[/quote]



What about this number?



Not a Morning Musume single (though it is credited to 'Takahashi Ai (Morning Musume)'on the 'cover') and not a big-time A-side like the aforementioned, but does it have to be a single's A-side song?

Afterall, someone like Niigaki has Yowamushi or Koe as her focus songs, and Ai got her own solo digital single in this instance.

[Gerald]

[quote name='eri' timestamp='1315278475' post='107636']

It is probably because of a myriad of factors that go into planning rather complicated large events for a dwindling audience.

[/quote]

Because of course UFA have no experience in dealing with a large number of dates, but having said that the 2009 Fall Tour was 42 dates, the 2010 was 16 and now this at 10, that would tend to indicate that audiences are dropping drastically assuming similar venues sizes for the tours.



[quote name='eri' timestamp='1315278475' post='107636']

Stop making issues out of non-issues.

[/quote]



So you don't consider something that, by your own admission, indicates dwindling audiences is an issue that can/should be commented on?

[Anderei]

[quote name='The Turtle Moves' timestamp='1315337266' post='107672']



So you don't consider something that, by your own admission, indicates dwindling audiences is an issue that can/should be commented on?

[/quote]



2 shows at Budokan is 28,000 people which is the same as 14 smaller venues. And even if it wasn't, dwindling audiences aren't an issue.

[eri]

[quote name='The Turtle Moves' timestamp='1315337266' post='107672']



[quote name='eri' timestamp='1315278475' post='107636']

Stop making issues out of non-issues.

[/quote]



So you don't consider something that, by your own admission, indicates dwindling audiences is an issue that can/should be commented on?

[/quote]



This was never a topic about Morning Musume concert attendance but about this non-issue:



[quote name='The Turtle Moves' timestamp='1315164463' post='107543']

My impression is Ai is getting shafted, it's a "let's get her out of the way ASAP so that we can get on with the 10th Gen".

[/quote]



THAT part is ridiculous. Takahashi has gotten so much absurd attention over her atrociously long tenure in the group. They are closing her time with a huge concert at Budokan and letting her plan all kinds of things for the concert itself. Having her graduate in a timely manner and having this followed up with a new generation is par on course for the group. The horror at the perceived lack of...attention? respect? is totally baffling to me. And regarding the 10th gen, I mean, is there supposed to be a mourning period after graduations now?

[Gerald]

[quote name='eri' timestamp='1315341038' post='107675']



THAT part is ridiculous. Takahashi has gotten so much absurd attention over her atrociously long tenure in the group. They are closing her time with a huge concert at Budokan and letting her plan all kinds of things for the concert itself. Having her graduate in a timely manner and having this followed up with a new generation is par on course for the group. The horror at the perceived lack of...attention? respect? is totally baffling to me. And regarding the 10th gen, I mean, is there supposed to be a mourning period after graduations now?

[/quote]

Ah, I get it, you really don't like Ai at all. I would suggest "her atrociously long tenure in the group" is something to do with her being the best dancer/actress and one of the best singers MM has had.



Why should I not feel that someone who has served MM for so long deserves respect from her employers or do you feel that respect in employment is a one-way street?



I have been told on a number of occasions here that MM have been holding steady as regards fans when I have suggested that their popularity is worryingly decreasing. Therefore I took it that a reduced number of concerts had to have another explanation other than a lack of interest in tickets to see MM.



If you are saying that they can't sell tickets for more then 10 dates when the longest serving member of the group is leaving then I agree that is not a lack of respect but just another sign that MM are on the way out.



I don't understand your comment about the 10th Gen, to me it's irrelevant when they join. The 9th Gen have seemingly done nothing to halt the slide of MM, judging by record sales and now apparently ticket sales they may well have accelerated the process. Assuming the 10th Gen is more of the same then my joke prediction of MM existing for another two years may be eerily prescient.

[eri]

[quote name='The Turtle Moves' timestamp='1315344907' post='107678']

[quote name='eri' timestamp='1315341038' post='107675']



THAT part is ridiculous. Takahashi has gotten so much absurd attention over her atrociously long tenure in the group. They are closing her time with a huge concert at Budokan and letting her plan all kinds of things for the concert itself. Having her graduate in a timely manner and having this followed up with a new generation is par on course for the group. The horror at the perceived lack of...attention? respect? is totally baffling to me. And regarding the 10th gen, I mean, is there supposed to be a mourning period after graduations now?

[/quote]

Ah, I get it, you really don't like Ai at all. I would suggest "her atrociously long tenure in the group" is something to do with her being the best dancer/actress and one of the best singers MM has had.



Why should I not feel that someone who has served MM for so long deserves respect from her employers or do you feel that respect in employment is a one-way street?



[/quote]



Turtle, you assume too much. I love Takahashi - she's one of my favorite members. But she's been in the group for 10 years. That is an absurd amount of time when most of the other girls are in and out at about 3-4 years.



All I'm saying is, there are probably many reasons why they chose a short Fall Tour. "Shafting" Takahashi was not one of those reasons.



And to add to that, I don't know how you turn every single topic into an "MM IS DOOMED" one. It is a special talent of yours <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hatthe.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whatthe:' />

[emily]

<deleted post - wrong topic. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> >

[rob]

Turtle dude, cheer up fuck sake.



What everyone keeps saying is that concerts at the Budokan are HUUUUGE and even if the number of concerts is lower, the attendance will actually be higher.



CD sales are cd sales, it's possible that the same 20k people have been buying every single since the group started and we have just managed to get rid of all the non-fans.



I love the group more than ever, every single I love in its own special way, I won't waste my time looking back on things, the past is gone dead and done and it ain't coming back.



You need to learn to love them while they are still here tsunku might just pull the plug on the entire H!P in a few years........ although I pray that never happens as a little H!P makes my day much happier.

[aine]

[quote name='rob' timestamp='1315371622' post='107702']

CD sales are cd sales, it's possible that the same 20k people have been buying every single since the group started

[/quote]

You missed 30k people here. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/hurr.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hurr:' />



There's no such thing as "too long" when it comes to Ai. You don't just break something just because it worked well for the last 10 years. Even though she's been in the centre of everything for quite some time now, if you look at the bigger picture, her role and emphasis on her lines keeps changing - and if she stayed it would have changed again, with Riho being awesome and all.



Risa's run was less stellar, but I really like how she matured into who she is now from the annoying brat she was when she joined, and I consider her the 2nd most important voice in MM now. And I don't hear motions to kick her our just because she was around as long as Ai was.

[rob]

Don't forget Ai wants to leave, she saw the 10 year mark and decided to move on to something else.



Nobody is kicking her out.

[Shoujo Q]

[quote name='rob' timestamp='1315398362' post='107713']

Don't forget Ai wants to leave, she saw the 10 year mark and decided to move on to something else.



Nobody is kicking her out.

[/quote]



Takahashi always said it was management that told her "Maybe you should consider graduating." That's a polite way of saying, get the hell out!

[Anderei]

Even Yossie said in an interview that they start suggesting to you when they think you should graduate.





But Takahashi also said in her recent Weekly Playboy interview that her graduation will allow the group to make progress, so maybe she herself knows it's time to go as well. I don't think she's blind to the fact that her being in the group these past few years has kept others from getting a chance to shine and she's such a safe fallback so there's been little reason to switch anything up.

[eri]

[quote name='aine' timestamp='1315377623' post='107709']

There's no such thing as "too long" when it comes to Ai. You don't just break something just because it worked well for the last 10 years. Even though she's been in the centre of everything for quite some time now, if you look at the bigger picture, her role and emphasis on her lines keeps changing - and if she stayed it would have changed again, with Riho being awesome and all.

[/quote]



Of course there is something as "too long" when it comes to a group that has always incorporated a system of graduations/auditions to keep the lineup fresh and interesting. I don't think it worked well for the last 10 years. The reason is, I do not think her role change significantly over her time in the group. In fact, I think she worked as a stabilizer in the sense that no matter when Takahashi was a new kid or when she lead....



*you could always expect her to be featured heavily (usually center now)

*you could always expect her to sing most of the song and have solos

*you could always expect her to sing pretty well and hence carry the song

*you could always expect her group dynamic to be one of "equals."

---fyi, In her exit interview (translated and posted somewhere), she talked about how the managers would get mad at the 5th gen for being so stale. It was because everyone was the same age and friends that their individuality did not come out at all. This is exactly what I've been complaining about for, yes, practically 10 years now <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

*we've come to the point where we can all accurately predict the line distribution, the centers, and the PV shots of every.single.song that has come out of the group for YEARS now.



Did any of these things change when Reina came into the group? Nope, which is why I'm doubtful things would have changed in any meaningful way just because there is another new kid being groomed for the center.



All these things are nice and we all love Takahashi, but frankly, I think it was a terrible idea to keep her in the group for so long. Her voice dominated the group but she did not bring any star power outside of the wota-comfort-zone. Yet, now that she's gone there is a weird scramble to cover her ridiculous solos in all of the songs.



I think it is weird and suspicious that Takahashi and Risa were kept in the group for SO LONG. Where the hell is whatshisface, mmfan with his statistics...